John Cage's "4'33"

This was a very controversial piece of "music" when it was written in the mid 1900's. If you havent heard it, it is a piece that doesn't have a single note or sound in it. The conductor and orchestra get on the stage, they sit down and a single person brings a clock and notifies the conductor when the allotted time for that movement is up. The piece is split into 3 movements, all which are completely silent and the total time for the piece is 4 minutes and 33 seconds. I've talked to music directors about this piece but I'm curious from a composers perspective. What do you all think of the piece? If it is a piece at all? I think this is more of a statement than a composition. A statement about how silence and introspection should be treasured more. I think he is also pointing out how we all percieve things differently.

Never heard of it.

of course it's a piece. specifically it is a piece that calls for four minutes and thirty-three seconds of a pianist (or other instrumentalist/s) making no sound whatsoever.

there are other pieces that call for amounts of time in which the performers are making no sound in between amounts of time when they are making sound. these silent amounts of time are called "rests". it just so happens that 4'33" consists entirely of them.

if you listen to some of cage's other time-container pieces, such as the "number pieces", the kinship becomes obvious. 4'33" is best appreciated not as the one-off gimmick it is commonly mistaken for, not even as some kind of philosophical statement, but in the context of cage's œuvre as a whole.

>If you havent heard it

That's certainly true in my case.

>If you havent heard it

 

That's certainly true in my case.

you definitely should look for it then. i recommend claudio abbado's studio version, even though he takes it a bit on the slow side—the rests in the second movement have so much vibrancy and colour. some people prefer pierre boulez's recording, but it is live, and reportedly someone coughs around 1:38. there's also oliver knussen's interpretation in the collected silent works of john cage edition for completeness, to say nothing of the chamber versions of which david tudor's is the obvious must-have.

My composition teacher told me that he was designated to look after Cage when he came to Liverpool some time in the 70s or 80s. Anyway, he said that he asked Cage about 4'33" and whether it was supposed to be some kind of philosophical statement about environmental sound, forcing the audience to listen to itself. Apparently, Cage's reply was something along the lines of "hmm, yeah, that sounds interesting!", almost like it hadn't occurred to him, or he was just reluctant to be forced to define the meaning of it as something specific. 

After reading Silence (probably one of the most tedious but interesting books I've ever had to read), I'd say that seems about right. I think he wants you to draw your own conclusions about the meaning of his compositions, whatever they may be. 

 

you definitely should look for it then.

I'm deaf, you insensitive clod

The conductor and orchestra get on the stage, ...

Then you haven't heard the original, but the orchestration of this masterpiece

>If you havent heard it

 

That's certainly true in my case.

epic meme arrow bro

Then you haven't heard the original, but the orchestration of this masterpiece

:D  :D :D  

Cage's orchestrating skills have always left me speechless.

I'll probably include this piece in my Piano Graduation Recital ^^

I would be impressed if someone performed it without a timing device and was accurate.

I'll probably include this piece in my Piano Graduation Recital ^^

Hey, finally a piece that I can perform at a keyboard!

epic meem arrow

I remember a time when nobody called quoting "meme arrows"...

I think that it is definitely a piece of music! Rests are just as important in music as notes, and they make a statement that is just as big as notes themselves. However, I think that Cage's intentions were for the listeners to listen to their environment for 4 minutes and 33 seconds and realize that there is art in some form all around them, no matter where they are.

Whatever point Cage might have had, I think 4'33 will remain original and unique. No one can, influenced by its style, go on to compose a 5'13 for example. That would then be a joke, if the original already wasn't. Do you all think that Cage was serious? And why do you think he chose 4 minutes and 33 seconds exactly, not longer or shorter. Many masterpieces' different interpretations take different durations and the range could well be between 4'00 and 5'00 according to different interpretations! So I think any individual performance of this piece might take either longer or shorter (by several seconds) than the originally designated 4'33, depending on interpretation.

I think that it is definitely a piece of music!

You cannot say it is "a 'piece' of music", but should rather say "it is a 'duration' of music"!

And why do you think he chose 4 minutes and 33 seconds exactly, not longer or shorter

that was the maximum length of a 78RPM 12" LP side, commonly used for recording classical music at the time

Actually, it is a piece of music. Music is the combination of sounds, including silence, for the purpose of pleasure, entertainment, etc. Therefore, 4 minutes and 33 seconds of silence is still a piece of music.

That makes sense, however, for the sake of my entertainment, I learned that music is the organization of sounds. But if there is no sound to start with (unless you wanna argue the sound of the clock or coughes in the audience) how is it music? Of course upon typing this I realize there IS sound going on but it is certainly not organized.... So music? Or a bunch of people crowded around a silent pianist?

EDIT: here is a good definition of music.

a : the science or art of ordering tones or sounds in succession, in combination, and in temporal relationships to produce a composition having unity and continuity

I remember a time when nobody called quoting "meme arrows"...

This isn't an image board. Quoting doesn't work that way. Fuckin reddit.

>Quoting doesn't work that way. Fuckin reddit.

USENET and email, sonny.

Yes and you are on a forum.

This isn't an image board. Quoting doesn't work that way. Fuckin reddit.

>Quoting doesn't work that way. Fuckin reddit.

 

USENET and email, sonny.

Yes and you are on a forum.

That plus this one makes 4.33 posts of unrelated non-sense ;) ...