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Posted

goddammit i'm rather confused right now. are key and tonality a different thing? what i mean lately is you can change the key but not always the tonality. modulation and establishment are different thing. in my opinion, C - Gm - A7 is not modulation until it hits Dm, and make it a key, but not tonality. it's in the key of F or Dm, but the tonality is still in C as the C maj introduced. Gm - A7 is just a roving, they belong to C tonality. their role are like borrowed chords from dorian region. when Gm shows up, you can be always back to Cmaj and still hear the tonality of C. It's been said the C tonality has been firmed. the cadence (A7 - Dm) is only for modulation. but not establishment. you need another cadence to establish it. thus you still hear it as C tonal, only is in the key of F or dm. am i gone astray?

Posted

Key is happening on a smaller scale in chord progressions and over sections of pieces.  Tonality is generally referencing much larger portions and entire pieces.  I can go through a number of keys without changing the tonality.  But that principle isn't very well applied to this example, especially because the key of C isn't actually established in any significant way.  Don't worry about that for right now, the book talks about it a little later.

 

Now, the simple answer, not every secondary dominant means you're modulating.  I can put an A7 in front of a dmin without modulating to the key of Dm.  I'm just expressing it for a split second and I'm on to something else, perhaps to express another key for just a second.

 

This is the only part of the exercise we could really say references d minor.  We just aren't there long enough and It makes more sense to analyze it as being F.

 

Dm: (iv)    -      (V)     -      (i)    - (V/V/bVII)  -   (VI)

 

F:    (ii)     -    (V/vi)    -    (vi)    -    (V/V)     -    (I)

    Gm/Bb        A7            Dm          G7           F/A

Posted

I can't agree with that, C is already established. Unless it goes briefly. As in this example, regarded as V of F key. If it's established in F tonality, dm-g7-F/A would be heard in F tonality. but it's obscured. what i mean by modulation is an excursion, or should i say pre-modulation since i dont have the word for it. Gm/Bb - A7 - Dm is a pre-modulation. but Dm is the new key, following the C key and C tonality in Cmaj. Dm is still in the C tonality though. to change tonality means to modulate, right? so modulation equals establishment. a key can be either pre-modulated or established.

But i dont know where to put G7 - F/A in a key. If it belongs to C key, then Schoenberg wouldn't regard it as II - I in F key. Since F/A is an obscure chord, it could belong to F key. Thus make G7 as secondary dominant, it's been canceled to resolve. The same case would happen if we take first three chords in the same fashion. For instance, C - Gm/Bb - A7 - G/B. the last chord doesnt belong to D key because it's an obscure chord. thus it belongs to C as V. A7 is canceled to give a new key, therefor resolved as secondary dominant of C key in deceptive cadence VI - V. Cool?

Posted

In the example, at least in the revised edition, he does assign II to G7 in reference to the key of F.  But he explicitly says in the footnote that it's not to be thought of as an altered chord on II in F, but as a secondary dominant, as V of V.  

 

Gm-A7 is resolving like a deceptive cadence in the key of C with a minor v-ViI, that part's cool.  But you're already in the key of F.  The minor v lacks the leading tone, so it's not actually doing anything to tell us that we're in the key of C.  A7 is now hinting at Dm, but Dm doesn't become a tonic, it becomes the predominant in C, followed by the dominant G7.  The F/A is I.  

 

Some of the resolutions are peculiar, but that's the harmonic world you're dealing with borrowing from other modes and altering chords.  One chord can follow another without them having anything to do with each other.

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