Developing A Composition?

Hello everybody, this is my first post here!

First a little bit about myself: I've got no musical training whatsoever, but I love listening to music. My younger brother studies the piano and I used to sit and play chords, scales and anything that came to mind. Year 2013, my wife bought a synthesizer because wants to learn to play the piano but soon she loses interest and I pick the instrument to continue my old habit of playing what comes to my mind.

Owning a Mac and a DAW (logic pro) I decided to actually try to compose  real music, so I've been studying music theory. My knowledge is still minimal but I'm not a total noob either, and I have gotten some ideas that, at least to me, sound nice and worth of exploration.

Now my problem: I've got a melody and basic arpeggio that goes through 13 bars in 4/4. The progression goes fom Cm and return to Cm at bar 13. After this I'm stuck... I don't know how to continue. Improvising as I always do I've have written some other ideas but they still lack the connection to my main line. So guys, what should I do in order to continue developing my piece of music? Are there rules or guidelines to follow in order to go from A to B and eventually  link everything in a coherent way?

Thanks a lot for reading!

Output 1-2.mp3

Try to analyze what you've done.  What are the ideas that make up your work?  Your texture/color, your rhythm/harmony, or rhythm/melody, are easy sources. 

Generally, development comes from your motifs, which are your ideas.--^ 

You can then implement these ideas again, as small as they may be,  2 notes, 14 notes?  Whatever.  How could use them again?  You can state something twice, but have it speak a different quality the second time.  Or manipulate it's make up, until it morphs - you can do this slowly, or quickly...You can do anything you like, hooray! :P  It is all up to your aim, what you want out yourself, and your work.  These are 'artistic decisions'...that are always left to your discretion, again...hooray. 

So, to reiterate, change the rhythms you've used...you say it's all in 4/4...well, put it into a triplet meter.  Do subtle changes as well.  Change your harmony, even try modulation.  Turn those arpeggios in to chords with rhythm.  Write a counter melody.  Change which register you play in.  These are all basic places to start.  Read a few books. :)

Also, much music of the past will have a second theme, to contrast the first - so you don't always have to derive your next part from the first, but this is where you can introduce new motifs to work with...Which, then gives more possibilities for combining the ideas at some point.  (hooray?)

That being said, try to get a notation program (I believe I've heard Musescore is free??), and upload a score, and then people can show you, to a greater degree, how to develop...=)

Good luck.

Hello dscid, and thanks a lot for being the first one to reply!

I understand what you say, about playing with the basic melody, introducing little changes, make variations and so on... that is something that I understand and that eventually I plan to do. I say "eventually" mainly because I feel that what I have so far is too little (just the first sentence of a poem, or the introduction chapter of a short novel). In the mp3 I have repeated the first 13 bars and then came the violas making a similar melody line. I feel that at this stage just repeating or making variations will sound, well, repetitive and boring... I need to introduce a second phrase or theme, maybe a third one before ever thinking about returning to the opening melody with the added variations... and this is mainly what my question was about: how to come up with that second theme?

I've been experimenting with some changes in the chord progressions (the last idea I like was going from i to vii to i and then something else) and looks like some promising possibilities are opening up. But besides changing the order and kind of chords I'm using, I don't know what else I could try expand my ideas and sounds. As I said, my theory is almost zero and mainly I compose by mixing sounds and seing what fits together )

PS: Here is the score of the first 13 bars of music I have. To help me with my studies and understand all the theory I'm trying to absorbe, somebody please tell me: What is the key of this piece? What scales am I using? From what I know it looks like my chord progressions are based on Cm, but I'm not sure. Any kind of information regarding the structure of this piece would help me a lot to grasp the concepts of musical theory.

Thanks!

 I say "eventually" mainly because I feel that what I have so far is too little (just the first sentence of a poem, or the introduction chapter of a short novel).

That's exactly what I think needs impressed upon you; that you're limiting yourself by overlooking what you already have.  Across 12 measures, there is a wealth of possibilities to concern yourself with.  You just need to be much more creative. 

As of now, I see mainly broken chords/arpeggios, in straight eighth notes.  There is a lot you could do to make the rhythm of your melody more expressive.  Thirty seconds, to whole notes, and dotted, and tuplet figures of these, generally in a logical way...You know, stressing certain notes by adding to the duration - letting the melody hang at different points...but it is really is up to you, and what you want to create... If you want that or just arpeggios.

And, speaking of harmony - you might try changing the harmonic rhythm, instead of 1 chord per 2 measures.  You could do 2-3-4-5-6-7-etc chords per measure...one chord per 1/16th note if you wanted...

Also, filling in your chords with passing tones, utilizing the scales more, rather than the chords.  Basic example:  Turning eight notes C-Eb-G into 16ths C-D-Eb-F-G...this would just be an ascending scale...whereas you can determine your own arc, and melodic development by a combination of ascending/descending motion.  I'm sure you know this already as 'common sense'....but, you should probably try it out some more. 

Look up the basic developmental techniques...and read some books, and articles, and such...That's probably your best bet.  I was stating obvious things, simply to stress that you do have enough to work with as far as development goes.

imslp.org

Go study some scores...You seem to probably like Chopin...so go see how he did what he did, understand it - even hand copy his scores, and get a feel for it.  This can be really helpful - choose a simple one of his, heh.  Not saying to copy him in your works - but go see what he did that was different from what you did, and it might expand your horizons?

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After a glance, your harmony seems Cm...but with Dm chord with a minor second, instead of D diminished.  Your iv chord uses a M6, instead of m6. 

And your v chord becomes the V, at the end, but still uses the m6, and m7 intervals.  Everything else is pretty straight forward. 

Oh yeah, you said you mainly wanted to know how to come up with the second theme...The same way you came up with the first :P Seriously though, do you want a contrast, or a continuation of the mood with a new phrase?  Figure out your aims, and try to meet them.  Do you want to intensify?  Figure out, through experimentation, how to go about that.  Think about your work as a whole, and what kind of arc of intensity you want from beginning to end...For instance, most people save their utmost dramatics for the finale, and don't blow their wad on the first mini-climax.

Hello again and thanks for your great answer.

You say that I'm limiting myself and probably that it's true, being inexperienced, I may be missing things that for other are crystal clear lol. In part the reason why I speak of repetition is because I'm not trying to compose a classical piece of music, where an idea is chopped and rearranged in infinite changes if rhythm, accents and note progressions. I used to listen to a lot of classical music long time ago, but now I listen mainly to progressive rock, a genre where there are a lot of key changes, motiffs, moods and so on.

Also the score shows my own ability, or should I say inability at playing the piano lol. This doesn't bother me right now since I plan to make the structure first and then make the necessary changes to embellish my music and make it a little more complete, for example shift the bass notes between arpeggios and add some grace notes here and there.

After listening over and over to what I already have I feel that I need a kind of continuation to the idea stated in the first 13 bars. I feel it's too early for introducing a big change yet ) 

Once again thanks for your time, and please understand that I'm learning music theory by composing, I'm better at understanding things by doing them and making mistakes )

I mainly listen to prog rock too, nor do I follow classical guidelines.  Prog rock was originally based on early 20th century music.  And most of these composers believed in understanding these basic concepts, in the very least.  And, it might do you well to look up 20th century music.  -Very- different from the 'classical' period.

So make mistakes =)  Continue what you've got.  If you're trying to be more progressive, learn what it means to do that, and do it.  What you have is the opposite of progressive =P  One tempo, one common time signature/meter, one key, basic unchanged motifs, and one mood.  So, see what happens if you start changing these aspects, and learn by doing.

Sounds like you know what you need to do!  One day, you may be able to afford a notation program with Playback, and you won't be limited to your own piano skills.  And, you get to be much more experimental (but remember to make it playable :P)

Just my .02

What you have is the opposite of progressive =P  One tempo, one common time signature/meter, one key, basic unchanged motifs, and one mood.  

Haha, I know exactly what you mean... but these are only 13 bars so far! :P

More and more I'm realizing that in my own practice, 'development' should be approached as a means of getting more out material, rather than a necessary action for coherence. If you can't find something new to do with an idea, move on. You can always return later. It's surprising how much you can wander while writing before doing something simple to create an effective sense of structure. 

I agree.  I follow Messiaen in that there is "only music with or without colour". 

Wiki:

When asked what Messiaen's main influence had been on composers, George
Benjamin said, "I think the sheer [...] colour has been so influential,
[...] rather than being a decorative element, [Messiaen showed that
colour] could be a structural, a fundamental element, [...] the
fundamental material of the music itself."

In regards to development, and this topic -^ :nod:

A few suggestions.

Come up with a 'plan' of sorts.  How long is this piece going to be, for instance?  It's not a bad idea to write out a general structural sketch:  draw diagrams, write a descriptive text, etc. 

You don't have to write the piece in full (start to finish), as you'd hear it all on the 1st draft.  There's nothing wrong with writing your next 'theme' (musical idea) and then writing a transition getting you there.  Often composers get frustrated after the first theme; they start to 'transition' without knowing where they are going.

It's not a bad idea to do some sort of harmonic sketch.  Where is the piece going, harmonically?

The more you can define about the piece before you start to write it, the easier composition will be.  

-A

I've somehow managed to advance in the composition of my piano piece. In bar 27 I slow down the tempo and the left hand changes from arpeggios to chords for every beat. In the context of the piece, do you think this works? Besides arpeggios and chords I don't know what else is usually written for the left hand to do. I would be glad to hear comments and suggestions.

Thank you!

PS. Sorry if the score is messy.

1105.pdf

Output1105.mp3

Besides arpeggios and chords I don't know what else is usually written for the left hand to do.

Ever thought about switching roles? Give the melody to the LH for a while and have the RH play harmonic figures above it ;) .

Ever thought about switching roles? Give the melody to the LH for a while and have the RH play harmonic figures above it ;) .

Lol, that was one of the things that I was in fact considering to do... but a little bit later, not yet ) What about the chords there? Do you think they work?

The chords seem to be fine - it's your use of them that really matters. For instance, you tend to have the chords falling exactly on the strong beat of each measure. It's OK when you do it the first time, but it can get tiresome after a while - unless, of course, you move them into syncopation ;) . With the musical material you have right now, there are plenty of things you can do.

The chords seem to be fine - it's your use of them that really matters. For instance, you tend to have the chords falling exactly on the strong beat of each measure. It's OK when you do it the first time, but it can get tiresome after a while - unless, of course, you move them into syncopation ;) . With the musical material you have right now, there are plenty of things you can do.

Hmm... interesting that you mention my tendency to have the chords on the strong beat of each measure since, really, I have no clue where else they could fall :P If the chords don't "regularly" fall into certain beats then, how is rhythm supposed to be maintained through the piece? Sorry if it looks like I've got not clue of anything, but It's been such a long time since last time I regularly listened to classical music that I forgot all that vocabulary... and I don't think this piece has got much relation to prog rock (what I listen to) as to get inspiration from it )

Have them fall on a weaker beat, but still regularly.

I agree.  I follow Messiaen in that there is "only music with or without colour". 

It's kind of a hollow statement.  I mean, what is he really saying?  You can have music without colour and it's still music?  Or music without colour is lesser music because it's missing something?  As I recall, there were many great composers he didn't think had colourful music.  

And I'm not sure his definition of colour, since he had synaesthesia, is what the rest of us who don't have it are thinking of when we use the word applied to music.

Haha - point taken; I had those thoughts upon hearing the statement for the first time, but I still liked it.

My thoughts are:

The statement is his expression, same as art is his, and any artists expression.  I do not care what the artist's personal meaning is to his work, I only care about what it means to me after absorbing it; what I take from it.  Then, it can be mildly interesting to know what it meant to him personally, but I generally hold more weight in how it means to me.

So what does it mean to me?  I don't have much time, so, in a nutshell, that is why I quoted the other.  The color alone can be the fundamental, coherent basis, for development, or no development, though still coherent in this way.  A step away from academic presendence. 

Well, as you said 'many great composers, he didn't think were colorful'.  And that his definition of color is meaningless to the average person.  I won't argue that many greats were great.  Though, I think everything has a time and place, and I don't think their time quite fits into ours.

Nor do I care about his definition of color.  Though, I still like the spirit of his words.  I don't have more time to elaborate, or clarify, but for now, this must do =)

I think in the context of the quote, Messiaen is talking about color as in expression and mood rather than variety in timbre. I recall a moment from a documentary on him where he is teaching students: while playing a reduction of Pelleas et Melisande at the piano, he says "this part is very orange, wouldn't you say?".