Important Notes

Hey guys, to what extend do you come back to important notes you introduce in your phrases? I noticed during analyzing some phrases that this is often the case. Im not talking about repeating material but just reusing those notes in a different context. I was curious what you guys think of this and how you approach it.

Can you please be so gentle and elaborate on your question by providing actual examples to clarify? Thanks.

For example with tchaikovsky's waltz of the flowers : http://conquest.imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/a/a7/IMSLP01094-Tchaikovsky_-_Nutcracker_Suite_VIII.pdf

On page 13 , in the last 2 bars he starts a new part where he starts on the F# in Bminor. He comes back to this F# a few times making it a very recognizable note in this phrase.

I hope this clarifies what i mean

Oh, I understand now. Yes, it is very common for a tonal phrase to insist on the dominant note. It is an archetype that comes from Gregorian psalms. A psalmody, typically. would start on the finalis note (out tonic) move to the tenor (also called repercussio or tuba), which is a note equivalent to our dominant. The psalm will be a recitation on this note. It would end with a return to the finalis. This gives an archetype for a melodic phrase tonic/recitative on the dominant/tonic. More complex melodies would elaborate on the repercussio section by changing pitches, but always revolving around the dominant note and using it frequently. This melodic archetype carried to the tonal music.

oh that is interesting. Ive also seen examples of other important notes being used frequently which are not the dominant. Is that familiar to you as well? Im struggling a bit with composing my phrases and was thinking maybe i should focus more on the notes i have already introduced.

what do you mean with tonal frase btw?

A musical phrase within the conventional tonal system. Atonal music would not insist upon any particular note, of course.

Ah ok yes. i understand. Im most of the time very focussed on the functions of the chords. But is it maybe not equally or more important to focus on the functions of the notes of the scale? And if so, do you have any advise for me how to approach this?

Regarding your other question: you could insist on whatever note you please. The note that is repeated more often and around which the melody revolves in certain segment becomes the dominant, that is all. Remember: Dominant (note that dominates the tonality) = repercussio (note that repeats more frequently). Obviously, this comes from a time when chords did not exist. If you use chords, your melodies don't need to insist on any particular note, because the chords will carry the tonality. Only, the notes of the melody must agree with the chords, of course.

There is a treatise on melody that you might find interesting. Don't remember the actual title ("on melody" or "melody writing" or some such), by Ernst Toch. It analyzes quite systematically how melodies are constructed.

Thanks for the book, Ill have a look.

If you use chords, your melodies don't need to insist on any particular note, because the chords will carry the tonality. Only, the notes of the melody must agree with the chords, of course.

 

<p>Not necessarily. It you are writing tonal music, there will be of course important notes that are insisted upon, because that is how tonal music works; namely the dominant (the most insistent note) and the tonic. Also the subdominant note is important. Those three are the "tonal grades". The other grades are called "modal" because they role is to define the mode (major, minor, Dorian, Lydian...). You do not need to insist on the tonal grades in your melody perforce; that insistence can happen just in the harmony, but you don't need to worry or think about it, because it will happen naturally, since you will be using I IV V chords a lot.  Also, I dare say that if you work on a tonal language, you would need to be quite deliberate to avoid insistence on particular notes; a melody built upon tonal harmony will naturally tend to gravitate around the tonal grades. If you deliberately go against that tendency of the melody that will happen quite naturally in a tonal context (T SD D harmony), you <em>might</em> get an effect of ambiguous or debilitated tonality, which is not necessarily bad, but sought after. I don't think there is a black or white answer, really.</p>

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<p>On the other hand, if you want to write atonal music, no grade of the scale can should repeated or insisted upon more than the others, both in the melody and in the harmony. If this is the case (no insistence on particular notes in both melody and harmony), the listeners will not lose the sense of the music, they will just lose the sense of tonality, but that is what atonal music is supposed to be.</p>

I forgot to mention; there will be also factors such as the "important" notes falling on strong beats, or on weak beats... and some other strange interactions that would enhance or weaken the sense of tonality.

Now I'm pretty sure you are confused enough. :innocent:  Mission accomplished!  :P

haha, yeah a little confused but its very interesting. Thanks for your help.

I have another question that i would like to hear your opinion about. In the beginning of tchaikovsky's waltz of the flowers( he ends his introduction motive with the notes F# - E - E, followed by ending on A - G - G.

then when he later arrives in the Tonic, D major on page 3, you have this 8th note part where he again ends on F# - E followed by the same motive ending on A - G. But all in a different context and with a different motive.

I was wondering if you think this is done on purpose, as if he was referring to that introduction part.

Im not sure if this is too far fetched.