renjer Posted October 16, 2013 Posted October 16, 2013 (edited) I have been reading quite a bit about fugues lately, so decided to write one. What do you think? P.S. I find it difficult to keep the distance between the alto and bass voice to less than an octave, is this a requirement? Fugue in F# - Full Score.pdf Fugue in F#.mid Edited October 16, 2013 by renjer PDF Fugue in F# - Full Score Quote
ComposerByNight Posted October 16, 2013 Posted October 16, 2013 Hi renjer, Nice work! And writing a fugue is a good challenge. You're right, it is difficult to keep bass and alto within an octave. When writing four-part choral harmony, the rule is generally to keep the voices within an octave of each other, except for the bass, which can be more than an octave away from the tenor line. You're writing keyboard music anyway, but it's not a requirement for you here. Don't be afraid to have nice wide spacing. :) Quote
ChristianPerrotta Posted October 17, 2013 Posted October 17, 2013 Well, for a first attempt it's not that bad, but I spot some severe inconsistencies here. I don't know what kind of style you wish to pursue or if you have some intentional will to break the rules, but considering that you're seeking the traditional way of composing fugues, here are some points:- Your subject should start in the 3rd beat of the measure. It's a matter of writing, but quite imortant. - Be careful in your counterpoint, as you're writing many paralel 5ths, 4ths and octaves. In writing in a traditional style, you must avoid the direct movement to perfect consonanses (5th, 4th, 8th, unison). - Try to make a more proeminent subject, This one is not a bad one, but is not that memorable. Put more attention on the head of the subject, as it's the part that will make it recognizable on each new entry. - You start on a high A, then makes the answer a 11th apart. Considering that the A is the III degree of the F#m key, then the answer should be on the III degree of the domiant key (C#m), which is E. You did it well, but an octave lower. It should be on the E of the last upper space. I know it's above the soprano (and you should try to avoid crossing voices for now), but you have a descending subject and descending order of voice-entry. It can be a problem if you don't know how to deal with it well. For now you could: (1) change your subject so that it doesn't end on a note lower than the starting note of the following entry; or (2) change the entry order of the exposition (maybe from bottom to top). - Your subject repeats the note C# many times on a regular interval of time. This may become a bit boring for a fugue. Try changing at least one of them (one in the middle). - Your 3 entries follow a weird order: you start with the soprano (apparently), then goes to the alto but the soprano lowers the register so that it starts to sound like an alto (and the alto like a tenor). Then you have a 3rd entry on the same register of the first one. Which one is the soprano, the 1st or the 3rd? - Watch your pauses, in order not to make the voices sound confusing. The end of the first entry is not so clear when the next one enters. You give some pauses and an isolated note that, at first, may confuse the listener as the beginning of the next entry. Well, we can always do better. If you're willing to compose fugues (I also do so, as a passion^^), you surely must listen to a ton of them. I suppose I must not mention Bach as a suggestion, as you might be listening to him already. But listening is not enough! Look for analysis! You may find some animated analysis of his fugues on the net easily. I'd also suggest André Gedalge's "Traité de la fugue" ("Teatrises on the fugue", I guess). It's a good fugue that introduces the composer step-by-step into the art of composing fugues. I hope I helped somehow. Fugues are my passion and I really appreciate anyone who's interested in composing them too. Good luck^^ 1 Quote
renjer Posted October 17, 2013 Author Posted October 17, 2013 Okay, since I'm still new to quoting and all this, I'll just have to copy and paste. "Your subject should start in the 3rd beat of the measure. It's a matter of writing, but quite imortant." I don't really understand this, can you please explain more? Does this mean having a rest in the first beat isn't a good practice? "Be careful in your counterpoint, as you're writing many paralel 5ths, 4ths and octaves. In writing in a traditional style, you must avoid the direct movement to perfect consonanses (5th, 4th, 8th, unison)." I understand the problems with parallel 5ths and octaves, but so far I have not heard of any restrictions regarding parallel 4ths. Also, when you say "avoid direct movement to perfect consonances" what do you mean? "You start on a high A, then makes the answer a 11th apart. Considering that the A is the III degree of the F#m key, then the answer should be on the III degree of the domiant key (C#m), which is E. You did it well, but an octave lower. It should be on the E of the last upper space. I know it's above the soprano (and you should try to avoid crossing voices for now), but you have a descending subject and descending order of voice-entry. It can be a problem if you don't know how to deal with it well. For now you could: (1) change your subject so that it doesn't end on a note lower than the starting note of the following entry; or (2) change the entry order of the exposition (maybe from bottom to top)." I read something about the fugue answer being in the dominant, but somehow I could not start the answer on high E above high A, and had to transpose down an octave. I guess I would have to look at more ways to modify the subject. "Your 3 entries follow a weird order: you start with the soprano (apparently), then goes to the alto but the soprano lowers the register so that it starts to sound like an alto (and the alto like a tenor). Then you have a 3rd entry on the same register of the first one. Which one is the soprano, the 1st or the 3rd?" I still have much to learn about voicings. Thanks for your suggestions anyway, I have not actually listened to Bach, and just came up with this to train myself in the use of counterpoint. As to my background, I only had Grade 8 ABRSM music theory knowledge with me, most of all these new things I learnt now I read them online (eg composing fugues). I wonder if there is a book on fugues that I could read about? Most of the books out there are on counterpoint. Quote
ChristianPerrotta Posted October 17, 2013 Posted October 17, 2013 Thanks for your suggestions anyway, I have not actually listened to Bach, and just came up with this to train myself in the use of counterpoint. As to my background, I only had Grade 8 ABRSM music theory knowledge with me, most of all these new things I learnt now I read them online (eg composing fugues). I wonder if there is a book on fugues that I could read about? Most of the books out there are on counterpoint. I'm glad my advices helped you in a way^^ As for the books, you shouldn't look for fugue books without a good knowledge on counterpoint. You may try the traditional "Gradus ad parnasum", by Fux, or a more modern approach by Schoenberg "Preliminary exercises on counterpoint". By studyind a good method of ounterpoint, many of these doubts will vanish (I believe). About the more specific doubts, here are better explanations. - "Your subject should start in the 3rd beat of the measure. It's a matter of writing, but quite imortant." I don't really understand this, can you please explain more? Does this mean having a rest in the first beat isn't a good practice? There's absolutely no problem on that. Many fugues composed by great masters start with a rest. However, this rest choice is not arbitrary. Please remember that music is sound, so what you hear is what really matters, more than tons of theoretical rules. In your fugue exposition, the subject is clearly written on a different beat than we normally hear. At least I heared it as a third beat. My suggestion is: add one more eighth-note pause (that is, a half-note pause), and start the subject on the third beat, OR start on the third beat in anacrusis^^ "Be careful in your counterpoint, as you're writing many paralel 5ths, 4ths and octaves. In writing in a traditional style, you must avoid the direct movement to perfect consonanses (5th, 4th, 8th, unison)." I understand the problems with parallel 5ths and octaves, but so far I have not heard of any restrictions regarding parallel 4ths. Also, when you say "avoid direct movement to perfect consonances" what do you mean? Well, some authors don't even consider the 4th a consonant interval!!!! I'm not telling you that I agree or not with this, but if you're following the common practice of traditional music, avoid 4ths intervals on 2-part writing. It's even worse when it's paralel. About the direct movement, I'm saying "do not move two voices to the same direction and ending on a perfect interval. That is, if you move one voice up, and the other one also goes up, be sure that the notes they're stop on do not create a perfect interval (unison, 5th and octave - and the specific case of the 4th too). If both voices go up together or go down together, make it in a way that they'll form a 3rd or a 6th (and compounds). That's a bit limited for now, but it's a good start. You may have more freedom to chose intervals of 5th, octave and unison if the two voices go to that interval by contrary movement, that is, one voice ascends while the other descends. Go look for counterpoint methods/books and many of these "problems" will be soved^^ 1 Quote
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