Scheduling A Virtual Meeting Concerning Problems Of This Site

Oh, but there ARE technical problems. I have to log in more than once, depending on which part of the site I want to go to. There are no email notifications anymore. The ratings system is gone. Site navigation is unclear, from top to bottom. The hierarchical management of types of works is restrictive and ridiculous forcing us to conform to types totally incongruous with our work.

All this fell on deaf ears when I wrote to the webmaster. He was not interested apparently. It seems that if you want to encourage more user participation, and better volume and quality, of reviews, YC management needs to work on the above first. This site was NOT broken before, but the "improvement" is. This has turned me off big time. I was always happy to comment on and give advise to anyone before, but why stick around if this site cannot even bother with basic web functionality?

Oh, but there ARE technical problems. I have to log in more than once, depending on which part of the site I want to go to. There are no email notifications anymore. The ratings system is gone. Site navigation is unclear, from top to bottom. The hierarchical management of types of works is restrictive and ridiculous forcing us to conform to types totally incongruous with our work.

 

All this fell on deaf ears when I wrote to the webmaster. He was not interested apparently. It seems that if you want to encourage more user participation, and better volume and quality, of reviews, YC management needs to work on the above first. This site was NOT broken before, but the "improvement" is. This has turned me off big time. I was always happy to comment on and give advise to anyone before, but why stick around if this site cannot even bother with basic web functionality?

I haven't experienced any technical glitches (so far), and I still get notifications....but I do agree that the organization of the new site is horrendous. I also do miss the ratings system and the major works folder. 

I do agree that the organization of the new site is horrendous. I also do miss the ratings system and the major works folder. 

Well, I think it's now safe to say that this new layout has been an epic blunder. With a particularly bad timing. I've heard about a lot of sites which turn users off due to changes in their appearance - but not to such a degree that they actually cause the whole site to implode. Until now.

Maybe we can convince the admins to revert the site to the old format?

Certainly the problem isn't that the place is run by an idiot who consistently makes absolutely the worst decisions possible?

And I know for a fact that changing the mechanics, layout, and visual style of a website once a year just drives traffic to a website like a double decker bus.

So I have no idea what the problem is. I'm sure Mike has the answer, he always has the answer.

Oh oh oh! I got it! We need a bigger banner, so that I can only see one line of text when I'm here instead of the 2-3 the current banner allows!

I agree with many posters that the new format is a change for the worse. You can't even see the profiles of the composers properly. And you can't send messages to them. Also, there is no rating as many have noted. The comments/reviews on the uploaded pieces have no information on the date and time like they used to.

I suggest that this thread be used to make criticisms and suggestions to improve the site. Later we can agree on the most important points and present them to the administrators.

It seems that Austenite prefers the site completely dead to some members regularly posting pieces, complaining as he is: "And there is also this member who, while remaining technically "active", does nothing else than upload his own stuff every few days, completely oblivious to any feedback he receives or (even worse) to the fact that other composers might also want feedback for their stuff." I wonder if he is jealous? Or is he looking to brew up trouble? Is he perhaps longing for the days where they would as a group all gang up on me and pile up abuse against me and my music. Finally those days seem to have passed, with the major offender Sorjar having seemingly "retired" from his "duty" and I seem to have started to garner some respect as a composer. And suddenly, I look behind me and spot the "ever-polite" Austenite trying to identify me as the problem of this site? How much lower can he get, I wonder? I have, trying to avoid friction with bullies, tried to keep a low profile by as much as I can, limiting myself to only posting my pieces (as a way of "publishing" and not trying to fish compliments or abuse, mind you). And he criticizes even that!!!!! What nerve!

I wonder if he is jealous?

Do you really think there's anything about you that I can be jealous about? Or are you looking to brew up trouble? Frankly this rethorical question would be laughable at the very least, if it wasn't so tiresome to keep reading your self-pitying antics.

I seem to have started to garner some respect as a composer.

Seriously? Or have you done enough to discourage any kind of criticism or the slightest suggestion for improvement?

Also: Do you ever - EVER - review a piece by someone else? Or does anyone look up to you for advice on forms, development, counterpoint, orchestration or whatever? If your answer to any of these questions is NO, I wonder how can you possibly know for sure that you're garnering respect rather than indifference.

Get the idea, for God's sake: this site is about cooperation and feedback. This is NOT a showcase site for "composer wannabes", so full of themselves as to blatantly ignore everything and everyone around them (and who would be better served by starting their own website). This IS a site for people who want to share knowledge and use it to improve, so the only attitude that can keep the site alive is that of cooperation and humility.

@Austenite: I don't have to defend myself to you, but yes, I have, for your information done around 20 reviews. And yes, someone asked me to listen to their piece and asked for my advice.

I agree with your last paragraph: the site SHOULD be about cooperation and feedback. Nothing would please me more about this site if it were so! And yet, for that respect would be necessary, something which is often missing.

Judging from a previous post of yours, "Most of the remaining active members appear to think very lowly of their own musical knowledge, thus becoming afraid of sharing it, let alone write a SCATHING REVIEW of anything." (my capitals), I can see that you don't think that such respect is necessary. And you even go so far as to expect members not only to have self-confidence but to go over the board to scathe others with their reviews. I don't  subscribe to that harsh view. And I find your expectations contradictory. How can you expect members to have confidence if other confident members are expected to SCATHE them with their SCATHING reviews? Your choice of word is revealing. If you don't know the meaning, the dictionary defines scathe as "Hurt or wither with sharp criticism". I wonder if your idea of a good member is the ability to hurt another with their criticism. I, on the other hand, think that good criticism rather builds. It must build on what is already there, not aim to destroy everything to get the composer to build from scratch. As such, the most important thing is to appreciate and encourage whatever talent and ability the composer already has. And then only MAKE SUGGESTIONS of how they can improve, suggestions the composer may choose to follow or not. Not to totally DISMISS and seek to DESTROY what they possess and have already accomplished. But I guess the world cannot work that way. I am dreaming of a utopia.

@Luderart: perhaps you deserve a congratulation for writing 20 reviews through your almost 8 years as a site member, clearly showing how much you're interested in reaching out and helping others. BTW, I've written over a thousand reviews since joining in late 2011. And, as most active members can assess, I always try to be as constructive and provide as much help as possible, not even expecting as much as a review of any work of mine in return. Perhaps that's what you attempt to scorn when referring to me as "the 'ever-polite' Austenite".

I have also been very vocal about the need of mutual respect among members, often calling out rude behavior, so I don't think you're in any position to lecture me about manners. But make no mistake: being polite doesn't mean being hypocritical. Whenever reviewing someone else's work, I've made a point of stating clearly what needs to be improved in my view - no matter if it sounds harsher than it really is. If this site is to survive and keep thriving, members should be encouraged to openly say what they think and to share their knowledge and opinions (even if there are sharp disagreements), provided that they do so aiming to help fellow members towards a common goal of growth as composers. And to keep in mind that we should regard each other as a fellow.

But by ignoring others and discouraging criticism, we're not doing the community (or ourselves as composers) any favors. Although perhaps that might go beyond your will, since you've built a reputation for yourself as being too easily "scathed" and overreacting to even the slightest criticism (the latest two posts being shining examples of this).

So let me be even clearer: I'm not calling on you to leave YC - I'm calling on you to go beyond yourself and get truly involved in cooperation and feedback. It's up to us to keep this alive and healthy.

@luderart: Troll.

For clarity: Scathe definition: 'Criticize somebody: to subject somebody to severe criticism'. 'Hurt or wither with sharp criticism' - not the only definition of scathe, and very deliberately picked, it sounds like.

Hey!, When did the Vikings arrive here? Where's our Brittish politeness?!

I understand why sometimes Luderart "may" have some reasons to feel "scathed" sometimes (first time I see this word in my life), but I don't think it's proportional to the storm he does when overreacting. I do agree that some very important and influent members DO bully sometimes and it's not that contributive (also there are these mean jokes). However, @luderart, you've just written so many bullshit here that I must confess: I'm impressed!

Austenite, you don't deserve his comments, it's not true at all.

Frankly, I opened this thread in order to create an optimistic environment, a peaceful and productive area where we could discuss betterments to this site. It has just become barbarity!

Yes, lets please keep our personal disagreements out of this thread (thats what the shoutbox is for)

At least this is showing that there's still a heart and a soul in YC. Now, it's up to us to choose what kind of member do we want to be, and hope that most of us will pick the high road (which is the only road that may lead to this community soaring back to life).

At least this is showing that there's still a heart and a soul in YC. Now, it's up to us to choose what kind of member do we want to be, and hope that most of us will pick the high road (which is the only road that may lead to this community soaring back to life).

Does that mean you deliberately picked on my just so you could bring back "the heart and soul" in YC? Is bullying me the only place where you people can find common ground and unite, either in agreement or in disagreement? If so, you are indeed a pitiful bunch and your condition far worse than I could have ever imagined.

Do you really think there's anything about you that I can be jealous about?

The above remark in itself bears ample testimony not only to your intense jealousy, but also to your flat-out denial of it, and your hatred to the point of devaluing your object of jealousy to the point of worthlessness!

Get the idea, for God's sake: this site is about cooperation and feedback. This is NOT a showcase site for "composer wannabes", so full of themselves as to blatantly ignore everything and everyone around them (and who would be better served by starting their own website). This IS a site for people who want to share knowledge and use it to improve, so the only attitude that can keep the site alive is that of cooperation and humility.

Somehow, I don't completely agree. Many composers are known for their stubbornness, and for not accepting any criticism of their work. Does that make them unsuitable for this site? Or does it make them unworthy of being composers? And who are you to decide what this site is about, or what being a composer is about? Are you that conceited as to believe only your own ideas about composition and composers count? Does your "cooperation and humility" come at the cost of individuality, character, and originality?

@Luderart:

But by ignoring others and discouraging criticism, we're not doing the community (or ourselves as composers) any favors. Although perhaps that might go beyond your will, since you've built a reputation for yourself as being too easily "scathed" and overreacting to even the slightest criticism (the latest two posts being shining examples of this).

I see you here painting the victim of scathing criticism (not to say bullying) as themselves the guilty party for "ignoring" others and overreacting in response to such bullying. Tell me, how can relative disregard of others be worse than brutal attacks on someone and their music, than outright bullying? You are a deluded person to believe that, if you ask me. And if anything, my reaction has often been even ignoring the bullying. Perhaps initially, far from overreacting to them, I ignored the attacks too much to the point that I let them increase in intensity and frequency and take hold. By reacting decisively from the beginning, I could well have stopped them. But surely, someone as prolific as me is bound to have to, at least periodically, put up with the jealousy, and often bullying, of a largely inactive and stagnating bunch of composers (or should I rather say decomposers?) like yourselves.

@luderart: Troll and egoist. lel

@luderart: Troll and egoist. lel

It is easy for you sitting in your high chair as "moderator" to cast about judgements left and right. I suggest you rather exercise your responsibilities as moderator and get down to the task of compiling the many suggestions offered here in order to start improving this website.

It is easy for you sitting in your high chair as "moderator" to cast about judgements left and right. I suggest you rather exercise your responsibilities as moderator and get down to the task of compiling the many suggestions offered here in order to start improving this website.

If you were a more active and interested member of this site, you'd know that moderators have no such power: only administrators have the ability to change things here, and they've already made threads dedicated to suggestions for fixing the site (here and here). The issue is that nothing will change in our favor - nothing about the site will change, at least physically, how we want it to - until the admins start caring about our objections. I have no power over that, nor do any of my fellow moderators and reviewers, nor do any members otherwise - except the administrators.

And are you really so defensive now that you see me as somebody 'sitting in [a] [highchair]', as someone morally or musically superior or up there who needs to be surmounted - because I'm a moderator or otherwise because I have beliefs and opinions of my own? Do you find me that intimidating? It's not as though I'm the only one here '[casting] about judgments' - and I certainly have a right to; you've just given a judgment, for instance. As has everbody else here, especially once they've started talking about issues as contentious as all these so far brought up. If there's anybody who's thrust themselves up upon a highchair, it's you: you're always unfailing in seeing yourself above everybody, with the utmost pretension, not ever willing to honestly criticize your own pieces, but rather those who criticize you - and your pieces never change, you never make any real progress. Your constant defensiveness, even against the most constructive and benign comments, though they may be critical, makes you seem antagonistic and frustrates most here who are readied and willing to accept and give like criticism - without malice, and then in the name of decency, courtesy, and social-mindedness, in the hope that nothing is so greatly rumbled that we can't all help and at least appreciate each other's efforts. When I say 'egoist', I really mean it: If you want to become good at music-making, or any other kind of creative art, you're going to have to overcome yourself at some point and start listening to what you do. Stop being so self-obsessed and love your craft. Get out of yourself. 

If you want to become good at music-making, or any other kind of creative art, you're going to have to overcome yourself at some point and start listening to what you do. Stop being so self-obsessed and love your craft. Get out of yourself. 

You mean "start listening to what you do" FROM OTHERS' VIEWPOINT, or to be more precise with an "OBJECTIVE PAIR OF EARS". But that's exactly it! I think music is a subjective activity. And I think I am fully entitled not to judge my pieces from an objective viewpoint in order to satisfy the "objective" view of what a composer should be, or how a composer should compose. I am entitled to embrace my particular language of composition as my own subjective way of artistic self-expression. Otherwise, you would be calling for a conformity among composers where all would compose in the same way and none would dare to be original, for "objective" criteria of judgement of musical value. And much of modern music already is in a state of such conformity, with little that separates one composer from another, with very little true originality. And if you don't like my own particular style of subjective compositional self-expression, or even think it devoid of any artistic merit, then it is your own business. You don't have to shove your subjective opinion down my throat, or to try to bias the judgement of everyone else in here. There are people who like and appreciate my music and who have told me so themselves. So stop promoting your subjective views and opinion as the final word or the objective truth.

The above remark in itself bears ample testimony not only to your intense jealousy, but also to your flat-out denial of it, and your hatred to the point of devaluing your object of jealousy to the point of worthlessness!

The above remark in itself bears ample testimony of what to expect from you. Self-righteousness, self-promotion, self-praising nonsensical remarks and an uncontestable degree of self-satisfying arrogance, seizing every single opportunity to draw attention to yourself (even if that means jumping to "defend" yourself when nobody had actually named you, perhaps feeling alluded by a precise description of your spam-ish use of the site).

Many composers are known for their stubbornness, and for not accepting any criticism of their work.

Such as yourself? Are you finally showing something reminiscent of honesty?

Well, no, I don't think so, because that would be expecting too much from you. You're probably pointing fingers to someone else. I keep forgetting you're absolutely unable or unwilling to ever see anything wrong with yourself. It's always other people's fault because they fail to appreciate your intrinsic genius and try to spoil it by "bullying" you into "conformity", so you better avoid any contact with such people, lest you be "contaminated".

It's pretty clear by now that any interaction with you is an utter waste of time.

Will you ever stop derailing the thread? Quit spamming!

The above remark in itself bears ample testimony of what to expect from you. Self-righteousness, self-promotion, self-praising nonsensical remarks and an uncontestable degree of self-satisfying arrogance, seizing every single opportunity to draw attention to yourself (even if that means jumping to "defend" yourself when nobody had actually named you, perhaps feeling alluded by a precise description of your spam-ish use of the site).

 

 

 

Such as yourself? Are you finally showing something reminiscent of honesty?

 

Well, no, I don't think so, because that would be expecting too much from you. You're probably pointing fingers to someone else. I keep forgetting you're absolutely unable or unwilling to ever see anything wrong with yourself. It's always other people's fault because they fail to appreciate your intrinsic genius and try to spoil it by "bullying" you into "conformity", so you better avoid any contact with such people, lest you be "contaminated".

 

It's pretty clear by now that any interaction with you is an utter waste of time.

 

Will you ever stop derailing the thread? Quit spamming!

Well, I guess we cannot see eye to eye. I will stop, provided you yourself stop making indirect criticisms about me and expecting me to silently let them pass. And every new reply by you is loaded with fresh accusations of me. For example, you now charge me with "spam-ish use of the site". But I won't sink any lower with you trying to defend myself against that baseless accusation! I have had quite enough of this.

that baseless accusation!

You might be referring to your memorable "jealousy" line.

And despite it not deserving the honor of an answer, I must add one:

"Mutilate your subjects if you must, but... I beg you, do not mutilate the arts - compose no more music." (from the movie Quo Vadis).

Finally....can we now focus on the original point of this thread?

And this kind of stuff highlights yet another reason I left. Constant bickering about useless and petty things.

Be the change you wish to see in this world, even a tiny virtual nook. A church is not made of walls, but rather it's people. 

Is the dissension among you really all derived from a lack of leadership? Is it that you do not see the colored names of the moderators in the discussions you hold with importance? Is it that when you look at the shoutbox you see nothing but BOOM instead of getting to know the people who you have found a common bond in music? Is it that the focus of this website harboring composers who have chosen a love or passion or even a profession that is lucrative only in pennies has fallen into childish banter, casting the few fingers we have here at each other? Aren't we all to blame? Haven't we all vented our frustrations at others here at times? Is the name-calling really worth it? Are they not all the same grievances? Don't we all have different goals and aspirations in music and life, yet so strikingly similar at the same time? Is it the memories many of you have of a more "glorious" time when logging onto Young Composers? Is it that you miss the friendships you've made while here, as so many have stopped by for miniature increments in their lives only to disappear for random reason X caused by reason Y? 

I could infinitely go on, but in a society filled with minds clogged with "TL;DR", I'll just get to the point. We don't need meetings, we all know the sources of this site's infestation of problems. I'm glad there are a few people who care enough to point it out, but rectifying the minimization plaguing a once populated site starts with doing what you wish to see yourselves. Be the example. Start commenting on other's music again, especially new members. Surely most have created an account with the self-centered goal to have their music heard and judged by their peers. But isn't that the reason why we've all created accounts? If no one commented on the first piece of my music submitted here 6 or so years ago, would I have become a "member" of a community? Would I have grown into the musician and composer I am today without someone else who knows a hell of a lot more about music taken the time to tell me what they thought of my audio garbage I thought that had attained absolute perfection? 

There is no glory or reward for the individual in creating a unified community. There will always be those who swim in the waters of vile language and basically sexual misconduct, as just because the repercussions are not directly visible does not mean they don't impact the welfare of this site. Ignore it, don't feed it. With a positive goal in mind (and I know the people commenting in this thread possess that), with perseverance one person only needs to affect one other person, not a thousand. The rest will take care of itself.  

As long as we continue to be a community who likes to compare music ego sizes...this place will continue to go under. Nobody likes to be around that kind of attitude. We all have strengths and weaknesses- but there's no point in being on a website like this unless you chose to use the strengths to help other's weak spots in a constructive, non-condescending manner.