Scheduling A Virtual Meeting Concerning Problems Of This Site

You might be referring to your memorable "jealousy" line.

 

And despite it not deserving the honor of an answer, I must add one:

 

"Mutilate your subjects if you must, but... I beg you, do not mutilate the arts - compose no more music." (from the movie Quo Vadis).

Finally....can we now focus on the original point of this thread?

Not before I congratulate Austenite for showing great potential as a musical dictator.

http://www.ce-review.org/99/1/music1_horton.html

Ok. Seriously. Enough. Both of you see the other as inferior members, composers, reviewers, etc etc etc. We get it. Now shut up and lets actually talk about constructive things for the site.

Nobody likes to be around that kind of attitude.

Absolutely agree, once more.

... there's no point in being on a website like this unless you chose to use the strengths to help other's weak spots in a constructive, non-condescending manner.

I see this attitude in most of our remaining members. But the point still stands: if this community is going to keep working, it's up to us. Being here, taking a lot of our own time to listen to other people's music and trying to help, without any real reward, and also dealing with some kind of people, can get one weary at times. But I know no other way, and if there's one, we should be discussing it. As we've seen quite often the attitude of a single member can make a difference - especially in driving away valuable people out of impatience.

BTW, I'm relieved to say that Luderart and myself have been able to iron out a few of our differences through PMs. I'm sorry for the inconvenience - yet I felt the need to point it out because unsolved disputes (even if "petty" ones) do a lot of damage to a community. I hope this helps to set an example of how to deal with even the harshest disagreements, which would be a major step in keeping the site alive and improving.

BTW, I'm relieved to say that Luderart and myself have been able to iron out a few of our differences through PMs. I'm sorry for the inconvenience - yet I felt the need to point it out because unsolved disputes (even if "petty" ones) do a lot of damage to a community. I hope this helps to set an example of how to deal with even the harshest disagreements, which would be a major step in keeping the site alive and improving.

Great! So now both of you are composing a sonata together as BFF? :D

So now both of you are composing a sonata together as BFF? :D

Don't exaggerate. ;) .

It is wonderful that many people are interesed in reviving this site. And chopin's idea is great, but we should have another moderator with us in this crucial moment, while he is a bit "out".

 

I must tell you guys that I miss Morivou a lot here... I don't know if it's coincidence, but I feel this apathy here since he has "quit" YC. I'm sure he would have many great ideas for this probem^^

Me too. :P hahah.

So, here's the deal.. I wonder if the forum format is just too big for what we are right now. 

I'm a member of a few facebook composition/orchestration groups... I know this might not be optimal (though, I will say that this site seems to be fairly facebook integrated...), but you/we might consider moving to a facebook group where we share pieces by thread and review questions by thread. Instead of having a whole separate forum.

That's a VERY drastic thing, but I'm throwing out drastic options so we can scale them back and make them reasonable. 

In fact, there probably should just be a more laid back space, where community is the main focus, and the music-talk is organic from it. This whole system of "reviewing" and "contests"... these all seem to be parts of a community that is 30-40-50 people large. Where it's hard to keep up with everything unless it's organized. I, honestly, don't see the problem with scaling the forum back to the way it was back in the day. There weren't as many categories, and the music was NOT at the top of the page. 

Just some thoughts. I'm probably wrong. It's been a long time since I really put thought into the forum. My ideas might be outdated, but I like to think I have some out of the box theories that could work. 

Welcome back Morivou! You were always a voice of reason and moderation as well as a fair judge, all of them things that YC is really in need of. So of course you were missed here.

I think you have provided some thought-provoking suggestions. While I don't think that moving to Facebook would be a good thing (we have our own profiles here and a specific composition-specific format and forum); we could benefit from and use some of the Facebook features, or adapt them to YC.

Since cooperation, feedback and helping each other is being emphasized; I suggest that we have a special place for first-time compositions, where those who are sharing their compositions for the first time can share their pieces. That way, those of us who have posted a lot of pieces as well as anyone else might take special note of that part of the forum and provide more reviews of them as well as more considerate reviews in order to encourage those who are daring to compose and to share their compositions for the first time. It would not be a very pleasant experience for the first-time composer/sharer to be welcomed by a harsh or inconsiderate review of their piece and its shortcomings, or to be buried among the submissions of other seasoned composers.

Also, previously we used to receive a daily e-mail of new works posted on the site. Now, probably ever since the new format of the site started, there is no such thing. I think that was a useful way to get us more involved in the website and encourage us to review compositions.

 

 

Since cooperation, feedback and helping each other is being emphasized; I suggest that we have a special place for first-time compositions, where those who are sharing their compositions for the first time can share their pieces.

I really love this idea. It envelops people into the community and gives us a chance to also get to know the person. How do they respond to criticism? How do they take compliments? How do their scores look? Do they provide scores? 

All good things to just let the person know as soon as they get here. Like a tutorial of some kind. 

I also suggest that each new member who joins should be asked to review one work before they submit their own, getting them in the habit of reviewing and also understanding the cyclical nature of the site: You review my piece, I review yours. (at least, that's how it works with me)

I think YC should begin developing some major items that will attract people. Chopin, as I've read, is making a competing notation software. That's pretty good, but that sounds like it would take FOREVER to complete.

What if we began work on a Youtube series introducing young people (not as in age, but in experience composition-wise, which is how the site is named) to composition. Talking about some basic music theory, why composition is good for the mind and soul, and the realities of pursuing it as a hobby or profession. Nothing too technical to start off with. And, maybe in the future, we could do some analysis videos of classic pieces, or try and get premieres of YC works to be put online.

Another thing I wanted to do when I was here was hold a composition contest for solo baritone and piano, and have it recorded as the prize. I never got around to it. But, I might some day.

We have to provide incentives for people to join and be active. Give them GOOD, scholarly resources other than the musings of a crazy composition minor in college posted to their piece. Give them a platform that is safe, inviting, and yet challenging.

This also brings me to my next point: We should be reviewing more. My goal is to review a minimum of 1 piece a day! Get goallllsss! So, in the end, I have to leave but I'll be back soon. Let's keep the discussion going. :)

I really love this idea. It envelops people into the community and gives us a chance to also get to know the person. How do they respond to criticism? How do they take compliments? How do their scores look? Do they provide scores? 

 

All good things to just let the person know as soon as they get here. Like a tutorial of some kind. 

 

I also suggest that each new member who joins should be asked to review one work before they submit their own, getting them in the habit of reviewing and also understanding the cyclical nature of the site: You review my piece, I review yours. (at least, that's how it works with me)

 

I think YC should begin developing some major items that will attract people. Chopin, as I've read, is making a competing notation software. That's pretty good, but that sounds like it would take FOREVER to complete.

 

What if we began work on a Youtube series introducing young people (not as in age, but in experience composition-wise, which is how the site is named) to composition. Talking about some basic music theory, why composition is good for the mind and soul, and the realities of pursuing it as a hobby or profession. Nothing too technical to start off with. And, maybe in the future, we could do some analysis videos of classic pieces, or try and get premieres of YC works to be put online.

 

Another thing I wanted to do when I was here was hold a composition contest for solo baritone and piano, and have it recorded as the prize. I never got around to it. But, I might some day.

 

We have to provide incentives for people to join and be active. Give them GOOD, scholarly resources other than the musings of a crazy composition minor in college posted to their piece. Give them a platform that is safe, inviting, and yet challenging.

This also brings me to my next point: We should be reviewing more. My goal is to review a minimum of 1 piece a day! Get goallllsss! So, in the end, I have to leave but I'll be back soon. Let's keep the discussion going. :)

These are some excellent ideas!

1 day = 1 review (at least)

This may warm things up well enough to this great revival attempt!

We don't have to make it a requirement, but we could challenge people to do it. 

The thing we don't want is a contest of reviews because it's possible that people would reduce the quality of reviews... so, just asking people to listen to one piece a day is a start. I think people will start doing more than one a day, if they set aside time to come in and be a part of the community.

Good suggestions!  I'd love to find ways to get people thinking more about the practicalities of actually having their pieces performed.  So many pieces are posted here, seemingly with no expectation of it ever going any further than the sound file spit out by their computer.  Even if your pieces aren't perfect, you can learn soooooo much from really getting them out there to other musicians who play them.  Instead of just getting a quick listen and a review.  

I post on choralwiki as well as here.  That's the place choir directors go looking for free, downloadable music.  Their site is SLOW.  And confusing to navigate and hard to search.  We could do much better with a little thought and become a destination for chamber groups, solo performers, etc. looking for new music to perform.  I hang out on the choral directors forum as well and there are constant requests for suggestions of good new work by contemporary composers.  People do want to perform new stuff.  They find it exciting to premiere a piece by an unknown composer.  They just need to be able to find what they are looking for.  Most of the live music performed around the world is performed by volunteer amateurs, so not everything can be composed for a virtuoso.  Directors have to make do with the performers they have available, so they may have 3 violins, a tuba, and an organ.  There is often an overall theme to their concert that they need one more piece to fit with.  Professional symphony orchestras aren't likely to look here for new repertoire, but smaller groups will.  (Yay!  Free music!)  

So I'd suggest:

Some way to classify compositions, not by form, but by instruments required to play it, would be great:  boxes to tick for the postee so that their piece would be searchable by instrument(s).  Some way to search for a chamber group looking for a piece for violin, viola, baritone and flute that would let them tick all the boxes for those instruments and get a list of the current pieces on the site that match, or partially match, those instruments.  You can do that on choralwiki currently, although it's a bit annoying.  So people do.  And people search.  

Some way to tag and search for music by themes.  If I'm already programming "The Planets" I want to be able to be able to find your piece for orchestra called "The Stars" or "Neptune" or "Heavenly Bodies" because you've put a tag on it for "astronomy," "space," etc.  Again, you can do that to a certain extent on choralwiki.  

Support for as many different sound formats as possible, and the ability to post more than one for the same composition, so that the old fart using dial-up who can only figure out how to download a midi file can get the download that way, and the person who wants an mp3 can get it that way, and the person who wants a wav file can get it that way, all for the same piece.  All of the options clearly visible and obvious.  Most of the compositions on choralwiki have several different ways to listen to the sound file, several ways to view and download the score, a link or two or three to a video… all for the same piece.  We are young composers, but some people who would like to perform our work are older and have older person computer skills.  If we kept that in mind and provided multiple avenues to exploring our work more often, it would be performed more often.

A forum section for the users of the site who want to use this site to find new work to perform.  Where they can ask questions, state things that annoy them about our scores and make them unplayable, state things that they really like…  Maybe a really obvious, easy way to attach a sound file or video to a review, so that it occurs to a director to record their group's performance and post the recording along with their thoughts of what went well and what didn't.  

And for Pete's sake, everyone clean up your scores.  (Pet peeve.)

(Currently waiting with bated breath to find out if that choir in Canada really did sing my piece.  I've got no way to find out for sure without pestering their conductor… Well!  Did you do it?  Did you love it?… Would make me look seriously uncool, but I'm dying to know.)

Scores are my LIFE. If you have a messy score, nobody will even look twice at your piece. 

I refuse to review anything other than a score until it is legible.

This is like being handed a "genius" book, but without being able to read the chicken scratch... Nobody will put in the effort.

Here's one idea for the competitions problems:

- Let's REDUCE the number of competitons once more, like just 4 of them per year (one for each season), or three, maybe two (one for each semester) of even just one.

- Then we could also designate previously the instrumentation for each competition, for example: if we decide for 4 competitions (seasons), then we could always have one for full orchestra, one for chamber group, one for solo instrument and one "surprise" (different each year).

- Definitely add the Winner's folder.

- We could also add a poll-like rating system for the community to judge together with the judges.

I believe that people will give more value if we have fewer competitions. The composers will also prepare themselves better for the competitions, as they will be expecting it already before...

What do you think?

Here's one idea for the competitions problems:

 

- Let's REDUCE the number of competitons once more, like just 4 of them per year (one for each season), or three, maybe two (one for each semester) of even just one.

- Then we could also designate previously the instrumentation for each competition, for example: if we decide for 4 competitions (seasons), then we could always have one for full orchestra, one for chamber group, one for solo instrument and one "surprise" (different each year).

- Definitely add the Winner's folder.

- We could also add a poll-like rating system for the community to judge together with the judges.

 

I believe that people will give more value if we have fewer competitions. The composers will also prepare themselves better for the competitions, as they will be expecting it already before...

 

What do you think?

Sounds good to me. I think 4 competitions (for each season) is good enough. 

I agree. This is a good idea. We should have the competitions 4 times a year. One beginning every three months. June-July-August (Summer Competition), September-October-November (Fall Competition), December-January-February (Winter Competition), and March-April-May (Spring Competition). 

This also coincides with school calendars on the US schedule. So, we will have more competitors in the Summer and Winter, which is fine with me. In this way, we can begin in June with the first big one, and have the whole summer to try this system out.

In this way, we can do bigger projects. Like, a whole orchestral piece, or a song cycle... and have them be good. 

If there are people who want to do smaller projects, perhaps consider the alternative we had some success with twice in the past: the challenges forum. Where there might be a fugue subject and you're asked to complete the exposition. Or, where you're given a melody and told to compose a piece developing the motif.

Great! So, I am te one running competitions recently... but, whose "OK" do we need to put it into pracitce?

Who's going to decide about the competitions?

I'd suggest that we form four comittees every year in december (with different people) in order to decide these four major competitions' guidelines... but if the first one is already now, what could we do? It cannot be that open, in a thread, because everyone will know about the competition before the others... We could open a thread for suggestions and leave for reviewers/moderators to form it.

I think you just need one of the mods oks. Tell them your intentions, and then get to it! 

I think you should have only two judges. We have very few active members, and we want as many people participating as possible! 

There's also another possibility... what if, since we don't have prizes anyway, we had "group" compositions? Not like, I do one measure, you do the next. But, where we all do a similar type of composition, and then we all review each other's pieces. Without the pressure of winning, we might be able to create something different. And, then we don't take up spaces for judges, when we only have a handful of people who will participate anyway.

This doesn't have to be forever. Maybe just until we get more members, and people see that participating in the competitions is fun and exciting. 

Another possibility? Just do it for one competition, and then go back to the normal system. 

I'm still just throwing around ideas. haha.

Great! I started a thread to collect suggestions here!

Good idea, John.

I disagree about the winner's folder. I don't like that idea. Just personal taste, though.

I'll just revive this thread temporarily to suggest a folder for pieces that don't have any reviews.
This will make it easier for us all to find good works that could do with feedback.

I thought there was not enough people in this site to actually have a meeting.

So I know I'm VERY new here, but I think the thoughts of someone who has literally just joined may be useful for you all.

I think something really useful would be some key resources and indeed lessons to help understand instrumental idioms. I may be new to this site, but years of orchestration classes are what have made me into the composer I am today. Understanding real instruments, that are played by real people is essential to anyone who plans to write acoustic music. Just looking around it's obvious to me that there are people here with real talent, but that talent needs to be backed up with solid, academic grounding. I've seen pieces that are wonderful -  in theory - if the flute could play forte in it's low register or if the violin could actually play a double stop on the D and E strings. So much of the talent here needs to be consolidated with good knowledge, a composer should know the principals of every instrument and having an easily accessible page teaching people about these instruments would be very useful.

My next idea is a little out there, but as a composer a live performance of my music is the best thing I could ever hope for. I wonder how many of you are also talented instrumentalist who could actually go away and record some compositions or even perform them! I'm very lucky to study in a university that is dedicated to performing student compositions, because a real person playing your music is so useful. So for you competitions why not give a prize, choose the instrumentation based on the performers on the site and then the winner gets a recording of their piece. For instance I could easily record a string quartet piece... it makes it harder with larger ensemble works I know, but in many ways composing for a small group of instruments or solo instruments is actually more difficult, so it could be a real challenge for the competitions! 

Just a few thoughts from a newbie!

Adam

So I know I'm VERY new here, but I think the thoughts of someone who has literally just joined may be useful for you all.

 

 

I think something really useful would be some key resources and indeed lessons to help understand instrumental idioms. I may be new to this site, but years of orchestration classes are what have made me into the composer I am today. Understanding real instruments, that are played by real people is essential to anyone who plans to write acoustic music. Just looking around it's obvious to me that there are people here with real talent, but that talent needs to be backed up with solid, academic grounding. I've seen pieces that are wonderful -  in theory - if the flute could play forte in it's low register or if the violin could actually play a double stop on the D and E strings. So much of the talent here needs to be consolidated with good knowledge, a composer should know the principals of every instrument and having an easily accessible page teaching people about these instruments would be very useful.

 

 

My next idea is a little out there, but as a composer a live performance of my music is the best thing I could ever hope for. I wonder how many of you are also talented instrumentalist who could actually go away and record some compositions or even perform them! I'm very lucky to study in a university that is dedicated to performing student compositions, because a real person playing your music is so useful. So for you competitions why not give a prize, choose the instrumentation based on the performers on the site and then the winner gets a recording of their piece. For instance I could easily record a string quartet piece... it makes it harder with larger ensemble works I know, but in many ways composing for a small group of instruments or solo instruments is actually more difficult, so it could be a real challenge for the competitions! 

 

 

Just a few thoughts from a newbie!

 

 

Adam

]

This is surely a great idea. There is a place in this forum where people can share lessons, start small courses and things like this. As you are confident in this idiomatic field, why don't you start a small regular course about it? I would love to join it^^