Composition Rules For Brass Instruments?

I've really been getting into the hype of brass instruments, and i'd really like to compose something for a brass ensemble in the future. The only problem being: I really wanted to know the rules for composing with brass instruments (specially the French Horn, Tuba and Trumpet) and i don't know where to start. My main focus being the tuning of each brass instrument (a B5 notated in a clarinet sounds like an G#5 in a piano [same key], 3 steps difference, that is how important tuning is).

Where should i even begin? Im not a brass player.

 At the risk of sounding stupid, I'd say just google it. That way you won't miss anything we don't post here. Not that I know anything about brass.  ...Good luck, though!

THERE ARE NO RULES!!!

Just kidding.. But i'm not sure what you're asking. Are you asking what key they are in?

Trumpets come in Bb (sounds a whole step lower than written) and C (concert pitch)

Horns are in F (sounds a perfect fifth lower than written)

Trombones and tubas are in C

If that is not what you were asking, do ignore me. I don't know what other information you are looking for.

Regarding the given advice to Google it, I must say that's a bad idea. The internet is not quite as forthcoming as you would think. Good information is hard to come by. An orchestration textbook would serve you better. Not that you can't find information at all. I just think it was much better for you to ask us here on the forum. More chance of getting useful hints from real people who can help you right here and now.

I agree with both KJ and Xavier (there are definitely no STRICT rules). You should really look into an orchestration textbook; there is a free translated version of Rimsky-Korsakov's book on IMSLP: http://imslp.org/wiki/Principles_of_Orchestration_(Rimsky-Korsakov,_Nikolay). I like Google too, even though there is some bad info out there, its reliable most of the time...you just have to be careful to discern fact from fiction. Anywho, this site is also a good tool: http://www.garritan.com/principles-of-orchestration/general-review-lessons-1-2/lesson-2/

 

.. But i'm not sure what you're asking. Are you asking what key they are in?

Trumpets come in Bb (sounds a whole step lower than written) and C (concert pitch)

Horns are in F (sounds a perfect fifth lower than written)

Trombones and tubas are in C

If that is not what you were asking, do ignore me. I don't know what other information you are looking for.

That is kinda what i was looking for. By "Trombones and tubas are in C" you mean that they sound exactly the same as they are notated? Also, by "a whole step" you mean like, two steps? (i am not new to music or anything but that "steps" thing still confuses me to this day). Also, what exactly do you mean by "concert picth"? I know i head that before though.

Also, that left me with another question: Lets say i have a whole orchestral ensemble in C (that is, no sharps on the cleffs) and a Bb Trumpet section. Will i have to actually write all my trumpet parts in Bb rather than in C? How am i supposed to do that without everything sounding weird?

 

 

Regarding the given advice to Google it, I must say that's a bad idea. The internet is not quite as forthcoming as you would think. Good information is hard to come by. An orchestration textbook would serve you better. Not that you can't find information at all. I just think it was much better for you to ask us here on the forum. More chance of getting useful hints from real people who can help you right here and now.

Well that is why i am here now! :D

 

 

I agree with both KJ and Xavier (there are definitely no STRICT rules). You should really look into an orchestration textbook; there is a free translated version of Rimsky-Korsakov's book on IMSLP: http://imslp.org/wik...rsakov,_Nikolay). I like Google too, even though there is some bad info out there, its reliable most of the time...you just have to be careful to discern fact from fiction. Anywho, this site is also a good tool: http://www.garritan.com/principles-of-orchestration/general-review-lessons-1-2/lesson-2/

Hey thanks! Do you happen to know any other good orchestration books that i can buy phisicaly? (i kind of prefer reading on paper, much much easier for me) Preferably a small one (no more than 200 pages or so).

Also, what i mean by "rules" isn't what you can do with the instrument, but its limitations, and strenghts.

 My main focus being the tuning of each brass instrument (a B5 notated in a clarinet sounds like an G#5 in a piano [same key], 3 steps difference, that is how important tuning is).

 

Unless I'm mistaken, a noted "B" on a standard Bb(B-flat) clarinet will sound like an "A"on the piano. I think your issue is with transposition and how it works (I kinda suck at this haha). Most instruments are "in C", which means they are in "concert pitch" (and as you said, they sound the same as they are notated). If you are writing for a transposing instrument (ie. Bb trumpet, Bb clarinet, F Horn) you would write the pitches in the transposed notation. This article might help: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transposing_instrument

I don't know about buying a "small" orchestration book, most of them are quite detailed and require some knowledge of basic music theory. I have seen "orchestration for dummies" type of books at book shops that might be helpful.

Sorry about that confusion. What I meant is that if you notate a C for the B-flat trumpet, it will actually sound like a B-flat. So any note you write for it will sound a whole step (two half steps) lower when actually played. A written D will sound like C and a written G# will sound like an F#. There are C trumpets in common use in America as well (I can't speak for other countries) so that might ease your burden. For the Horn, it is different. A notated C will sound like an F below that. Instruments keyed in concert pitch sound exactly as written, so you are exactly right. 

When you have transposing instruments For instance: If you have the whole orchestra playing in C-major, you will have to transpose the trumpet part up to D-major. The horn part, however, will have to be transposed up to G-major. I don't know what software you have, but Finale automatically changes the key signatures of transposing instruments to account for the difference. It also has a function that allows me to enter all the parts in concert pitch, and then it will automatically transpose the music as needed.

Also, just another helpful tip: It is not an uncommon practice for the score to be in concert pitch(that is, the key you really want) while the parts for transposing instruments are in the altered keys for the player's sakes.

 

 

 I think you're issue is with transposition and how it works 

Yeah! That is the word that i was looking for. Transposition.

 

Sorry about that confusion. What I meant is that if you notate a C for the B-flat trumpet, it will actually sound like a B-flat. So any note you write for it will sound a whole step (two half steps) lower when actually played. A written D will sound like C and a written G# will sound like an F#. There are C trumpets in common use in America as well (I can't speak for other countries) so that might ease your burden. For the Horn, it is different. A notated C will sound like an F below that. Instruments keyed in concert pitch sound exactly as written, so you are exactly right. 

 

When you have transposing instruments For instance: If you have the whole orchestra playing in C-major, you will have to transpose the trumpet part up to D-major. The horn part, however, will have to be transposed up to G-major. I don't know what software you have, but Finale automatically changes the key signatures of transposing instruments to account for the difference. It also has a function that allows me to enter all the parts in concert pitch, and then it will automatically transpose the music as needed.

I think I understand now. Im using Musescore and now i finally found out what that "concert pitch" button means, lol.

This is why this site is great.  This. Had. Never. Occurred. To. Me.  A director even had me transpose something once, and my thought was, oh, we must be doing it in a different key and everyone else already has their parts in the other key.  Bahahaha!  Well, I'm smarter than I was five minutes ago.  

Forums in general <3

There are books about this.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_0_13/188-2190780-4516056?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=orchestration&sprefix=orchestration%2Caps%2C274