Notating Stuff In A Not Ugly Way?

Ok so I would hate to be that one composer who is dumb and writes things in ways that are weird to read for performers so please, for the love of all that is holy, tell me if there is a better way to notate this:

It just looks bad to me. Any and all advice appreciated.

EDIT: that attached image is slightly different from the one in the link. The one in the link is the one I'm going with right now but either way I suppose you can still suggest the same changes. I just couldn't figure out how to get rid of that attached image...

What kind of crummy viola thing is this?  Many crummy violas in a symphony, or just one in a quartet?  Depending on context, could you change some of your 1/16ths to staccato 1/8ths?  (Coordinating many violas that might not be as exact as you need, but for just one that could clean up your score in a hurry.)  

I paged through my favorite notation bible, and they suggest beaming across rests by half-bar in this sort of situation, rather than just by beat, so those up-stemmed 1/16th notes that are dangling off by themselves could be beamed in with their compatriots in measures 8 through 12.  

Also, in simple time (4/4, 2/4…) "rests in the middle of a beat may be combined as long as the rhythm is straight-forward."  So you can combine the two 1/16 rests into a single 1/8th rest in the middle of beat one of measure 8.  Looks cleaner.  The example in the book is actually that exactly, so thumbs up on that one!  

Or, depending on what is going on in other parts, is there a reason it needs to be in 4/4 rather than 2/4 for a few measures?  That makes it a bit more digestible.  

So, all that taken together, how about for measure 8:

1/16th note, 1/8th rest, 1/16th note, 1/8th rest, 1/16 note all beamed together followed by a 1/16th rest.  Second half of the measure the same.

Or you can just do dotted 8th note plus 16th note (for one beat)...and then 8th measure rest, then 8th note....and repeat. Just put a staccato dot on all of them to indicate you want them short.

What kind of crummy viola thing is this?  Many crummy violas in a symphony, or just one in a quartet?  Depending on context, could you change some of your 1/16ths to staccato 1/8ths?  (Coordinating many violas that might not be as exact as you need, but for just one that could clean up your score in a hurry.)  

 

I paged through my favorite notation bible, and they suggest beaming across rests by half-bar in this sort of situation, rather than just by beat, so those up-stemmed 1/16th notes that are dangling off by themselves could be beamed in with their compatriots in measures 8 through 12.  

 

Also, in simple time (4/4, 2/4…) "rests in the middle of a beat may be combined as long as the rhythm is straight-forward."  So you can combine the two 1/16 rests into a single 1/8th rest in the middle of beat one of measure 8.  Looks cleaner.  The example in the book is actually that exactly, so thumbs up on that one!  

 

Or, depending on what is going on in other parts, is there a reason it needs to be in 4/4 rather than 2/4 for a few measures?  That makes it a bit more digestible.  

 

So, all that taken together, how about for measure 8:

1/16th note, 1/8th rest, 1/16th note, 1/8th rest, 1/16 note all beamed together followed by a 1/16th rest.  Second half of the measure the same.

Oh those are good ideas! I might just try that. I really must get myself a book to tell me these things so I don't have to turn to the forum in desperation for someone to tell me what's in their book :P By the way, it's for one viola in a sextet. Although the other viola has a similar part with the same rhythms. Anyway if staccato 8ths would achieve the same affect as 16ths then I'll do that. I just don't know how these things work out. I've never yet had a composition with strings performed, so I don't know how string players are or what they like or anything.

Or you can just do dotted 8th note plus 16th note (for one beat)...and then 8th measure rest, then 8th note....and repeat. Just put a staccato dot on all of them to indicate you want them short.

Ok so would the dotted staccato 8th note be played roughly the same as the 16th? Because the main reason I wanted to notate it as I did was in order to make sure the notes would be played for that duration with a very deliberate silence during those rests (juxtaposed with a melody in the violin that flows much more smoothly, I'll add for the sake of thoroughness) and I wasn't sure if the same effect would be achieved otherwise. Would players know what it is I want? I know I have a bad habit of not trusting players enough with my music, so I wonder if that's why I err here? I mean is the part ok? Is it annoying? Would the violist look at it and think "oh one of those >_<" or would it be fine?

I don't know anything so I'm really quite flustered... perhaps unduly but I am.

Staccato just means "short", not a specific duration of shortness.  So if there is a reason you need a very specific duration to make the parts work well together, you should write it out exactly.  On the other hand, readability matters, and musicians are inherently musical people.  So as soon as they get to practice together for the first time, they are likely to figure out exactly how short that staccato needs to be to make the music sing.  What you have to weigh is whether you want to risk them all practicing separately right up until the performance and discovering that that staccato really needs to be played as a 1/16th for the first time when they are in front of an audience… Heh… could TOTALLY happen.  

I got a "surprise!  It's a solo!"  five minutes before the second service Easter Sunday this year.  It's a bit unnerving, but it happens all the time.  The tenor soloist and I were both like, "Leaving aside the fact that this could have been mentioned at rehearsal a week ago, dude, we've been here for 3 hours already this morning, and you're only telling us this NOW?!"  I had to choose between plunking it through once on the piano and having time to pee before the service.  Director was like, "do you want to just do it a cappella, or should I fill in beneath you on the organ?"  OH MY GOD!!!  

I definitely know what you're talking about with church rehearsals and lack of bad communication between people. A few years ago, I had a rather flustering experience. I spent a month practicing the piano part for a Christmas pageant because I was told the usual pianist wasn't going to be available because her mother was in poor health. So I was all ready to go for that show only to find out that she was "SURPRISE!" suddenly available to play and she did. And I sat in the back of the balcony and watched while giving a sad, bitter commentary to my friends on the little mistakes she made here and there because she wasn't the one practicing all this time (Although she'd done most of these songs before). Apparently, she was under the impression that someone else (not me, but rather someone she was friends with) was going to fill in for her. The moment she found out it was me she decided she'd show up at the performance and play the part instead. And no one questioned the pastor's wife or bothered about that one kid they don't who would have played. I'm still slightly miffed :P

Back to the viola part in question: I guess they'd be able to figure it out, but I'm just so untrusting and I'd hate for the part not to be as specific as it needs to be. I guess I'll just pick one of the options you guys gave me using the good old heads or tails approach! That way I can't over think it.

 

Ok so would the dotted staccato 8th note be played roughly the same as the 16th? Because the main reason I wanted to notate it as I did was in order to make sure the notes would be played for that duration with a very deliberate silence during those rests (juxtaposed with a melody in the violin that flows much more smoothly, I'll add for the sake of thoroughness) and I wasn't sure if the same effect would be achieved otherwise. Would players know what it is I want? I know I have a bad habit of not trusting players enough with my music, so I wonder if that's why I err here? I mean is the part ok? Is it annoying? Would the violist look at it and think "oh one of those >_<" or would it be fine?

 

I don't know anything so I'm really quite flustered... perhaps unduly but I am.

Unless the tempo is really slow, I (and many others) would treat the dotted 8th notes as a VERY short note. You can also add a note/marking something like "staccato" or "secco" or something. General at a not-slow-tempo, most string players wouldn't really discern between an eighth note or a 16th note that is followed by rest.

KJ, here's what I would do. I have attached both the score and sound. You have played victim in trying to turn your notation program into a DAW. I can tell because you noted everything so specifically concerning the sound of the "shortness" which on the flipside would be a nightmare to try to read. If you want good sound coming from a notation program like Finale you must create and save your project two ways: how it sounds and how it looks.  

Viola Score.pdf

Viola MP3.mp3

Thanks for the tips Rodney. However, I was more concerned with making it readable while still making sure it would be played the way I wanted it by actual performers. So having said that, did you give me the score as you would suggest it to look or to sound? One of these is more important to me that the other, so clarification is appreciated. As I stated above, I'm not familiar with string players or how exactly to write for them so I can't surmise just from looking at your example whether it's meant to be read by a player or by finale or both.

Are you really this young and naïve? I took my blasted time and energy to show you how your music would look in a published score, gave you a sound example also for following along, told you why your score looked bad, and absolutely no appreciating. That's what's wrong with the youth of today. I made it perfectly readable for any string player, even showing you the bowing, and keeping your exact rhythms except how they should look and articulated. This is how it should look to be read by a real life player. The tempo and dynamics are optional and should be replaced with yours, but you did not offer them so I had to write some. When you write music, you must write the correct notes and how we should play them. I understand you were not trying to be rude, you just wanted clarification, but if someone takes this much time just to try to help you understand something that I paid $30,000+ to learn and you are getting it for free, it deserves more than just thanks for the tips. And to clarified, this is how it would look to get an actual player to play what you want. You would need to change the tempo and dynamics for your interpretation though.    

Forgive me if I seemed ungrateful for your help. I really do appreciate it a lot more than it must have seemed, but I'm not sure what more I was supposed to say in addition to thank you. I didn't think it was too much to ask for that clarification, and I thought I made it perfectly clear that my question was driven by lack of knowledge. I would have been plenty satisfied with a simple sentence like "The example I gave you is exactly how you can notate it for the performer" or something along those lines. I'm glad you took the time and showed me how I should notate the music and in the future I'll make better attempts to convey my gratitude appropriately.

Having made my apologies, I want to make it clear that I find your apparent irritation with me to be pretty pointless. I am not making any demands of anyone and I'm not sure what you think is so wrong with the "youth of today" or how that relates to this thread. I asked a simple question because I'm a simple student (one who is, by the way, also prepared to and about to pay a great deal of money for a college level education in this stuff) and all I expected were maybe a few simple answers and a little bit of patience. Don't act so abrasive as if further clarifying a simple question is such a bother. It would have taken one sentence. And it could even have been included in your original post, which was just a tad bit unclear, in the first place. If you're unhappy with my naivety and youth then perhaps you should stay away from sites that might possibly have young naive people on them. Such as ones with the word 'young' in their names... in big pink letters.

Ahem.  KJ is too polite, but Rodney, I feel like someone should inform you that KJ has, in fact, taken college level music courses, just like you.  He's here supplementing what he is learning elsewhere, as are most of us.  This is a place to get clarification, find new resources for study, and get additional feedback from your peers.  Questions are the point.  Discussion is the point.  How much you paid for your music education is not the point and really none of our business.  

Thanks pate.

Rodney, I feel compelled to state that while this exchange has been just a bit unpleasant, that it should in no way prevent us from interacting further down the line on this site. One lesson that I have learned is that the internet can cause us to behave without regard to manners and sometimes it's really tempting to react apprehensively when we shouldn't. So I'm not going to hold this against you or anything. No need to apologize or defend/justify yourself to me. I'm just a person on the internet asking questions and I promise that my feelings are only a little hurt :P so I'm just gonna make me some tea and make me some music and let this go before it even continues.

It's all good, and Pate, I can share my business with anyone, especially the public, common knowledge of the price of education, if it's used to make my point.