Top 5 Most Overrated / Underrated Composers

Underrated:

1. Debussy

2. Bernard Hermann

3. Camille Saint-Saëns

4. Erik Satie

5. @Tónskáld (gotta get a leg up on u guys for the summer competition sorry 😇)

Overrated:

1. Schoenberg (although I enjoy his books, and Pélleas und Melisande op.5 is amazing to me)

2. Haydn

3. Every Bach

4. Les Six

5. Hans Zimmer (although I like him, I just don't think he's the pinnacle of film scorers)

27 minutes ago, Left Unexplained said:

Underrated:

1. Debussy

2. Bernard Hermann

3. Camille Saint-Saëns

4. Erik Satie

5. @Tónskáld (gotta get a leg up on u guys for the summer competition sorry 😇)

Why don't you put Samuel Barber as #5 and make it a real French & American list?

Underrated (no particular order, and a lot of names most people have never heard of):

1. - Toivo Kuula

2. - Nikolai Myaskovsky

3. - Wilhelm Reinhard Berger

4. - Reinhold Gliere

5. - Charles Wakefield Cadman

(Honorable mentions: Kurt Atterberg, Anatoly Alexandrov, Anatoly Kos-Anatolsky, Ludomir Rozycki, Edward Macdowell, Camille Saint-Saens, Erno Dohnanyi, Viktor Kosenko, Vasyl Barvinsky, Pancho Vladigerov, Georgy Catoire (it's an infinite list))

Overrated:

1. - Arnold Schoenberg

2. - Gustav Mahler

3. - Dmitri Shostakovich

4. - Igor Stravinsky

5. - Johannes Brahms

Underrated 

1. Tchaikovsky

2. Zelenka 

3. Saint Saens 

4. Rossini 

5. Fux

Overrated 

1. Cage

2. Stockhausen 

3. Messiean 

4. Bartok 

5. Schumann (i still really like Schumann especially compared to the other 4 and theres a lot more modern composers I think deserving of this place but I think I need to put 1 pre 20th century composer to make it fair. l put him here because I don't understand how he is a household name next to Brahms and Chopin, I think he benefited from being in the main German music circle, if he was from another country I think he would be much more obscure).

I'm confused, when did Tchaikovsky start becoming underrated (I say this lightheartedly, of course!)? He's like the 19th century Russian Romantic that wasn't in the Big 5, right? Nutcracker, Swan Lake, Onegin, Violin Concerto in D, Piano Concerto No. 1, Symphony 5, etc.? Maybe I'm just out of the loop nowadays...
 

E R I C     S A T I E

On 1/20/2016 at 8:19 AM, Frankie Detergnt said:

so because i think harmony is somewhat studied, but rhythm is not, rhythm is the area which defines how "talented" you are as a composer. so a few quick notes i have to add after listening to (a few, not much) classical music:

 

untalented so overrated composers:

1. beethoven. i listened to his music almost an entire day, and what a waste of time that was. if you're not paying attention to some tricks that he does, the music passes by without any notice. there are few very few pieces that are good. but when he really nails a melody line, it's the type of melody composed by a kid who's starting out at piano lessons. (see ode of joy)

2. chopin. there's nothing there.. i'm exaggerating now but, i found only one piece which interesting harmonically just for a quick study, and the melody is made out of quarter notes (if that can even be called a melody)

3. brahms. i appreciate this guy for struggling. he's no genius, but his efforts are extraordinary. harmonically he's doing nothing in his era. he's more undeveloped than pachelbel probably.

4. nothing stuck to me from listening to schubert.

 

talented and underrated:

1. rossini. a force of nature. perfect. harmonically he may be far behind his time like brahms or tchaikovsky.

2. mendelssohn. perfect.

3. i didn't listen to that much classical music so this list is short. i can mention a guy completely untalented which is one of my favorites: erik satie.and there are also good composers from different nationalities which are not studied worldwide but they are good. (like enescu, etc)

4. maybe Carl Philipp Emanuel Bach, i remember i thought he was especially talented.

 

that's it. i only mentioned the underrated good ones, because bach, mozart, tchaikovsky, ravel, rachmaninoff, prokofiev, verdi, grieg, wagner, i find amazing.

 

Wow, there's no way this comment is serious. This is probably some kid that learnt to play the drum on the beat in school and thought that that was talent. He's literally capable of calling Joplin the greatest composer of all time because his genere has a lot of syncopation.

On 7/15/2020 at 11:39 AM, Makar said:

Wow, there's no way this comment is serious. This is probably some kid that learnt to play the drum on the beat in school and thought that that was talent. He's literally capable of calling Joplin the greatest composer of all time because his genere has a lot of syncopation.

 

Completely agree with you. Furthermore, you can say one composer is overrated but saying he is untalented is sacrilegious.

I’ll give 5 underrated composers:

- Mahler

-Schubert

-Mendelssohn

-Rachmaninoff

-Ravel

It’s hard for me to say if a composer is overrated, though.

Overrated:

1) Brahms. Nothing more than Beethoven 2.0. A conservatist who lived in the past with no intention of developing music past the point of late-classical.

2) Dvorak. Almost the same reason as Brahms. Same thing over and over again. No meaning to the music. Lifeless, no depth.

3) Mahler. Don’t get me wrong- I LOVE some of his works. The 9th symphony is one of my absolute favorites. But I cannot stand when people try to say his 2nd symphony is a masterpiece. It’s an absolute mess. The same can be said about so much more of his music. Some exceptions are select movements, like Sym 5, mvt 4. Or Sym 4, mvt 3.

Underrated:

1) Berlioz. All anyone ever talks about is Symphony Fantastique (which is a tad bit overrated, but still good). La Damnation de Faust and Les Troyens are two monumental works that are often overlooked. Not to mention, Berlioz’s music is extremely forward thinking for his time. He essentially reinvented the orchestra.
 

2) Saint-Saëns. Some of the most beautiful music I’ve ever heard comes out of his operas. Rarely are they ever played, especially in a symphonic setting.

3) James Newton-Howard. People can’t stop raving about John Williams and Hans Zimmer. While their greatness can’t be denied, James Newton-Howard is never mentioned in the same conversation as these two, which is an absolute shame. His soundtrack to King Kong is pure brilliance. For me, nothing comes close. Dinosaur and Snow White & the Huntsman are also amazing.

1)  both over and underrated:  John Williams (over because he's got so many overperformed and well known film scores .. under because hes got so many lesser known scores that are just amazing like A. I. - Artificial Intelligence, Minority Report and War of the Worlds)

2)  also for both over and underrated:  Alan Silvestri (besides his most famous scores - Back to the Future and the Avengers he's also done Forrest Gump and lots of lesser known soundtracks)

3)  still both over and underrated:  James Horner (besides Titanic and A Beautiful Mind, he also wrote the music for Apollo 13 and lots of others)

Overrated:

4)  Wagner - I am personally not a big fan of opera nor the operatic style of singing and he only wrote one symphony (although the preludes aren't bad).

5)  Leonard Bernstein - I think West Side Story is full of melodic cliches.

Underrated:

4)  Lutoslawski - he wrote some really cool tonal works inspired by the coloristic orchestrations of the impressionists before resorting to 12-tone serialism.

5)  Kodaly - Bartoks partner in crime often wrote some even more inspired (by folk music) pieces than Bartok did.

Everyone knows, of course, that this is all subjective

Underrated:

Mahler is still not recognized as the greatest symphonist of all time. If you can't agree with that, you must not have time to listen. Egotistical? Why? He devoted his entire life to listening, conducting, and composing. Who would actually think that those 'ginormous' symphonies were just to show off?

Beethoven. I can see how hearing his symphonies over and over and over might deflate the listener. But after Haydn and Mozart, he did transform the whole style. He was the first to write politically revolutionary symphonies. The main thing though is Beethoven's diversity. His quartets and sonatas are unlike anything before, very genius, and changed music forever. The piano and Beethoven will always be synonymous. 

Mozart. Of course, over the centuries we have come to hear Mozart's daddies as predictable and puerile. And Mozart did write a lot of music that fits into that category. But much of Mozart's chamber music is simply otherworldly, he wrote outstanding concertos and sonatas, and wow, the opera. And died at 36. So, Mozart is overrated? Oh, the shame!

Well, that's it for me. I don't know if Wagner is overrated or not, I just know he was vile and I never listen to him. 

Composers I'm listening to lately:

Rachmaninov, Prokofiev, Shostakovich (the whole Russian brigade), Bruckner (the introvert, I like that), Ravel, Bartok, et al.

I want to listen to more Haydn, Bach, and Stravinsky. That's all I can think of for now. Oh, and sorry, I agree the Brahms had great intentions and struggled, but for me he can be a real bore and I can hear him struggling. Like I said it's subjective. Oh, and I agree pretty much on Chopin, but you know, I really like those concertos. For strictly piano, I much prefer that way out Listz. 

I already replied once before but

Overrated:

1. Schoenberg.

Down with Schoenberg. Big time.

2. Mahler

3. John Williams. I love John Williams as much as anybody, but outside of his themes (for film or olympics or whatever) his music isn't nearly as impressive, I find. Not big on his concert works or film music outside of the themes.

4. Hans Zimmer (He can write good music, but apparently chooses not to for the last 15 years)

5. Bach

Underrated:

This list really is hard to put down to JUST "top 5" but 

1. Harry Gregson-Williams

2. Chuck E Meyers

3. Yanni

4. John Powell

5. Koji Kondo (even the cast of the Mario movie didn't know his name)

I know that this thread might be a bit dead, but I still want to give my opinion in _ composers that I think are underrated and/or overrated and in the case they are underrated, I will highlight their lesser known works

1. Mozart

No offence, but it is literally the reason why non-musicians think classical music (*) is posh and boring, with Vivaldi’s four seasons 

(*and with classical they mean everything without an electric guitar or a pop singer, which is a shame*)

2. Bach 

I think Bach was misunderstood, they often criticise him because of the lack of musicality, but music wasn’t quite musical in his era. Or say he was the best ever because of his complexity, which was also normal at the time. But even though that complexity was normal he is still a genius

3. Liszt 

when people listen the word Liszt they just think about extremely virtuosic pieces with too many unnecessary notes that you will have to practice 40 hours a day in order to master. But I think it is much more than that, he achieved the perfect balance between virtuosity in for example: Chasse Neige, harmonies du suoir or, my favourite, his second ballade (from my point of view it is much better than any other ballade)

4. Ravel 

I will just say his bolero is underrated, but he has other beautiful pieces: for example, Gaspard de la nuit, a piece known for its virtuosity but not as much because of its beauty

5. Debussy vs Scriabin 

I am not quite into impressionistic music, but I would say they sound very similar and they have pretty much the same quality in their compositions, but Debussy is unfairly more famous because of clair de lune (Ondina from gaspard de la nuit by ravel is similar at an emotional layer, but it is much more beautiful)(or even op 11 No 15 by Scriabin has a similar effect)

Rachmaninoff

I have too many things to say about him that I will probably create a topic about his music

I think this kind of question is always useless and futile. The problem is always in us, not the composers who are dead years ago. What's underrated and overrated are always changed between years and stylistic shifts. 

On 9/13/2023 at 2:54 PM, Henry Ng Tsz Kiu said:

I think this kind of question is always useless and futile. The problem is always in us, not the composers who are dead years ago. What's underrated and overrated are always changed between years and stylistic shifts. 

 

I absolutely agree with this.

Also, anyone declaring Beethoven to be overrated needs an urgent study on his 5 late string quartets. 

2 hours ago, Operating System said:

Also, anyone declaring Beethoven to be overrated needs an urgent study on his 5 late string quartets. 

I absolutely agree with this, as his late quartets are always my all time favourite! Maybe people just fall in the stereotype of Beethoven as an angry and furious man, but trust me, all of these are transcended in the late quartets, even in that furious Grosse Fuge!

Often it's the critics themselves who are overrated. They think of themselves very importantly so they can overrate/underrate composers, but no one cares about their opinion actually.

Henry

5 hours ago, Henry Ng Tsz Kiu said:

I absolutely agree with this, as his late quartets are always my all time favourite! Maybe people just fall in the stereotype of Beethoven as an angry and furious man, but trust me, all of these are transcended in the late quartets, even in that furious Grosse Fuge!

Often it's the critics themselves who are overrated. They think of themselves very importantly so they can overrate/underrate composers, but no one cares about their opinion actually.

Henry

 

 

I've never quite understood this stereotype. Most of his music actually seems quite joyful for me. After all, I'm pretty sure only 3 of the 32 sonatas end in minor and no symphony ends in minor.

1 hour ago, ComposaBoi said:

I've never quite understood this stereotype. Most of his music actually seems quite joyful for me. After all, I'm pretty sure only 3 of the 32 sonatas end in minor and no symphony ends in minor.

There are 4 though: no.8 Pathetique ends in C minor, no.14 Moonlight ends in C sharp minor, no.17 Tempest ends in D minor, no.23 Appassionata ends in F minor. But that is just 4 only.

But to have stereotype it guarantees you will never get to know that thing or people you stereotype, unless you break that epistemological barrier, like Schoenberg is a freaking atonal monster or Mozart is a composer for babies, or Bach just writes mechanically mathematical music. If you have this kind of prejudice when listening their music you will just find all their music "proof" of your misconception, but not what the music is as such.

For me there are never any composers overrated or underrated, just composers I like very much and less. Whether they are overrated or underrated or not, they are all better than you yourself, so what's the point to say they are overrated/underated? Also you can learn from different things from each of them and aware of the mistakes they have done and prevent them yourself in your own works.

Btw I hope I will be an overrated/underrated composer, at least people will know me LoL.

Henry

13 hours ago, Henry Ng Tsz Kiu said:

There are 4 though: no.8 Pathetique ends in C minor, no.14 Moonlight ends in C sharp minor, no.17 Tempest ends in D minor, no.23 Appassionata ends in F minor. But that is just 4 only.

Yes, my bad. Point still stands though.

15 hours ago, Henry Ng Tsz Kiu said:

Bach just writes mechanically mathematical music.

 

seems to me like that would be schonberg

Ok---

  Click-bait!

  Overrated:

1. Brahms:  "The 3 B's"?  Really?  Bach, Beethoven and BRAHMS?    Reading swafford's bio.  Yes, a great craftsman.  yes, conservative tastes.  But....

                         ******************BOOOOOORING.

2. Bruckner:         I actually enjoy the 4th, 7th...but that is not saying  he could use an editor.  And now and again it has that Vivaldi feeling like he wrote the same symphony 9 times.  Seriously.

3. Telemann:   Capable.  Rarely profound.

4. Liszt:     Great Pianist.    Not a great composer.   Used Joachim Raff to orchestrate a lot of music, before Raff realized he could do his own stuff---and often                much better....   But a good man.  That counts for something.

Underrated:

1. Mendelssohn:  (I pretty much had to list him!)    The guy wrote what has been called "The perfect symphony"--the Italian--and the Scottish.  The violin concerto.   A Midsummernight's Dream Overture, The Hebrides overture, 6 excellent string quartets, 2 masterpiece piano trios, the Octet, a significant and exceptional organ repoirtoire, some fine piano music, a masterful violin sonata (the F minor--supressed unitl Menhuin brought it to light in the 1950s)  Much of his juvenialia is exceptional as well---the piano quartets, the later string symphonies (At age 12???   REALLY?)

  Meanwhile, he basically established the core of the standard repoitoire as a conductor, revitalized Bach, and formed the Liepzig Music Conservatory that exists today.

   Many historians point to his many organizing and playing/conducting duties as sapping his energies and denying us even more masterpieces in his short, productive life.

2. Zelenka--   Far better than Vivaldi, Telemann, and any of a dozen other Baroque hacks--Zelenka wrote counterpoint on par with Bach and was a friend of his.  Interesting composing sense.  

3.   Joachim Raff:    Promoted by Mendelssohn, employed by Liszt, and  considered the preeminent symphonist in the 1870s 80s, he suffered from living TOO LONG  and writing TOO MUCH.  Fine compositions in all genres except Opera, I do believe.

4.  Ferdinand Ries:   Beethoven's student and aide:  Wrote fine piano music, Piano quartets, trios, string quartets, concetos and symphonies..Well respected and  widely known from 1800 to his death around 1840.  Some really excellent stuff.  I find he clearly has his own musical voice.

    I'll leave it at 4.

   I will say that I storngly disagree that Haydn was equal to Mozart.  Haydn himself recognized Mozart's superiority.  Haydn was brilliant, and  creative, establishing the symphony, string quartet, and evolved over his long life, but he was no Mozart, and his music lacks the grace and intricacy that Mozart could spin off at will.

I realize this thread is from quite a while ago, but it came up when on a whim I decided to google "underrated composers" so I made an account just to respond to this. Forgive me if I don't have a hang of the forum interface just yet. 

I am honestly pretty surprised to see a lot of these answers, particularly when it comes to overrated. First, it's not completely clear as to what the criteria for "overrated" as it's not obvious if that is meant to suggest they don't deserve to be so highly regarded as a computer or its the poster's personal taste and their music doesn't really do it for them, or even that they are just over played in concerts.

When it comes to considering a composer underrated, I'm not sure if that's the best descriptor. Maybe "underappreciated" would be more accurate, or not as popular as they deserve to be. A lot of the names listed as underrated are very highly regarded and their brilliant art is recognized as truly excellent from an authoritative perspective.

That said, I can hardly believe how often Mozart, Bach, or Beethoven are mentioned as being overrated. When it comes to the impact they had on future composers and their mastery it's not objectively possible to call them overrated. There is not a single composer who came after any of them that was not profoundly influence by their work in every way. All historically significant composers in their shadow knew how great they are and wouldn't hesitate to say so. Despite that, they are certainly overplayed and the real downside to that is how a lot of other music gets overlooked because of it. Still, each one changed the name of the game in their lifetimes. The structure and development of their music is unparalleled, particularly in how they incorporate chromaticism as structural element. Sometimes it's hard to recognize when you don't have the ability to see a world without them.

It's also difficult to truly say a composer is underrated if they still have their work taught in any university classrooms or can be found on the billing of a professional orchestra. It would have to be an obscure genius who no one has ever heard of, but I'm sure they are out there.

I'm through with my rant. Sorry if it comes across as self indulgent. One other point I want to make is I understand the fatigue that sets in from hearing particularly iconic music played over and over again. That shouldn't count as a strike against a composer though. Also, Vivaldi wrote a ton of opera, as did Strauss and I adore his Metamorphosen.

8 hours ago, Jonzi said:

I realize this thread is from quite a while ago, but it came up when on a whim I decided to google "underrated composers" so I made an account just to respond to this. Forgive me if I don't have a hang of the forum interface just yet. 

I am honestly pretty surprised to see a lot of these answers, particularly when it comes to overrated. First, it's not completely clear as to what the criteria for "overrated" as it's not obvious if that is meant to suggest they don't deserve to be so highly regarded as a computer or its the poster's personal taste and their music doesn't really do it for them, or even that they are just over played in concerts.

When it comes to considering a composer underrated, I'm not sure if that's the best descriptor. Maybe "underappreciated" would be more accurate, or not as popular as they deserve to be. A lot of the names listed as underrated are very highly regarded and their brilliant art is recognized as truly excellent from an authoritative perspective.

That said, I can hardly believe how often Mozart, Bach, or Beethoven are mentioned as being overrated. When it comes to the impact they had on future composers and their mastery it's not objectively possible to call them overrated. There is not a single composer who came after any of them that was not profoundly influence by their work in every way. All historically significant composers in their shadow knew how great they are and wouldn't hesitate to say so. Despite that, they are certainly overplayed and the real downside to that is how a lot of other music gets overlooked because of it. Still, each one changed the name of the game in their lifetimes. The structure and development of their music is unparalleled, particularly in how they incorporate chromaticism as structural element. Sometimes it's hard to recognize when you don't have the ability to see a world without them.

It's also difficult to truly say a composer is underrated if they still have their work taught in any university classrooms or can be found on the billing of a professional orchestra. It would have to be an obscure genius who no one has ever heard of, but I'm sure they are out there.

I'm through with my rant. Sorry if it comes across as self indulgent. One other point I want to make is I understand the fatigue that sets in from hearing particularly iconic music played over and over again. That shouldn't count as a strike against a composer though. Also, Vivaldi wrote a ton of opera, as did Strauss and I adore his Metamorphosen.

 

       I largely agree.

   The thread might  just as well ask;  "What composers do you like?"--at least in many cases.

   Broadly, I think the assessment of relative merit in the standard rep. is correct.  Mozart, Bach and Beethoven are really muscial Gods---recognized in their own time and deified for their contributions and mastery after their deaths.  How anyone could call these composers overated escapes me.

       I included Raff, Ries, and Zelenka as "underrated"--not that they are total unknowns--but there are some real beauties in their work.

  Henry points out that those who post their preferences are jealous hacks.  Can't argue with that, though it is an odd comment on amatuer composition site thread supposed to generate opinions.

   Maybe we should consider it a fun game--a bit tongue in cheek--and abosrb the rationales of others, and maybe pick up a composer name or two to EXPLORE.

   I personally wouldn't want to get in a composition contest with LIszt!!!!--It goes without saying...