Symphony Attempt

Hey guys!

I recently attempted (keyword attempted) to begin writing a symphony. So far I have partially worked out the exposition sections of the first movement, which I intend to be in Sonata-Allegro form. A problem, however, I ran into very quickly was that I am not at all familiar with assigning instruments to various ideas or lines. I quickly stopped working on it because I had no clue whether the work I had done was at all acceptable, even though it sounds good to my ears. So I let it be for several months.

Then it occurred to me today that there's a section on these forums for unfinished music especially! So I gathered the files together to post it.

Any comments are welcome! I'd especially appreciate opinions on the instrumentation itself. I realize that the score isn't the cleanest, but I haven't seen the value in making an unfinished project look pretty.

Thanks very much!

Hey man. There's a lot to like here, especially for a first orchestral effort! Here are some of my thoughts on the instrumentation, but know I'm no expert and I can't really say anything definitive.

M. 14-16: Not sure you need the 2nd oboe doubling with clarinet and trumpet. It goes into the very bottom of the oboe range, which isn't really idiomatic for passages in lower dynamics.

M. 20: I would rethink doubling the 2nd violin trill in the trumpets and horns. It wouldn't be possible to do a half-step (F#-G) lip trill, and valve trills would have a chance of really muddying the sound there. That may be fine for your purposes, but you'd probably get a cleaner result from clarinet or oboe.

M. 26-30: The 2nd flute line would probably have serious problems cutting through the rest of the dense orchestration. I get it's doubling the trumpet, but it's almost pointless because the trumpet would completely overpower it

M. 40-47: The oboe doubling is again dipping a little too far into its low register. Generally, anything below the staff isn't very characteristic of the oboe. I would probably reassign that line to a clarinet, or have the oboist switch to english horn for that line, which I think may be more the sound you have in mind. 

Some general thoughts: The best advice I've heard for instrumentation is that your choice of instrumentation should clarify the form of the piece. I think you're getting this idea, since you chose to really cut back on the brass for the second theme after they had largely dominated the first (which is itself pretty unusual compared to what I would typically expect from orchestral writing). It seems like you get that idea, but I'd really encourage you to think about how the way you choose to orchestrate certain sections of the piece helps define how they relate to others.

One last minor critique: It strikes me as odd that you have a long pause inbetween the first two themes. I really felt like the piece lost a lot of momentum and I really think it would be preferable to have a smoother transition between them. I hope I've been helpful and the things I've pointed out make sense. Forgive me if I've written anything strange, it's kind of late and I'm not thinking 100% clearly.

Thank you for all your thoughts, @fishyfry! I really greatly appreciate it! I'll make all the changes you suggest and take your advice about clarifying form! Thank you so much! :)

Yeah, the reason for the huge pause is because I haven't actually finished either theme (both are intended to be part of a larger exposition), so it's not there because I want there to be a pause, but because I just haven't gotten to writing that part yet.

A question: I'm worried about the flute part at M. 66. Is it possible to play that passage at that speed on the flute, or should I break down the rhythm there like I did with the oboes?

One thing I'm concerned about: I feel like the instrumentation might appear to be chosen at random. Any thoughts for how I can be more deliberate with instrument choices?

Thank you again for taking the time to comment!

Edit: Oh! One more thing. How do I notate that the 1st Oboe should switch to English Horn?

3 minutes ago, Keifer Brown said:

A question: I'm worried about the flute part at M. 66. Is it possible to play that passage at that speed on the flute, or should I break down the rhythm there like I did with the oboes

My instinct is yes. Flutes are generally very agile when it comes to leaps. I'm assuming you would want it to be slurred in four 16th note groupings. I don't think that would be a problem at all, but if it's questionable, I'm completely confident it would work if just the first 3 notes of each group was slurred and the fourth tongued. Get a second opinion, ideally from a flutist.

I think the best way to start being more deliberate about your instrument choices would just be to educate yourself on orchestration. There are tons of great resources out there. I own Samuel Adler's book The Study of Orchestration, which is such a great resource. It contains lots of wisdom and examples from great composers. Here's a youtube channel with some helpful bits of information, and there are others like it if you look. But the best resources of all are the scores that legendary composers left for us. I would highly recommend taking a look at the scores for some of your favorite pieces, and really studying what kind of choices those composers made and taking some time to think about why they did it and how you can apply their techniques to your own work.

Thanks for the follow up! I'll be sure to get that book. I've really been putting off studying composer's scores in depth because of (mostly) laziness on my part, but I'll try to be determined to do it!

And thank you for the positive feedback! I feel a lot more invigorated to continue working on this piece because of that! :)

5 hours ago, Keifer Brown said:

A question: I'm worried about the flute part at M. 66. Is it possible to play that passage at that speed on the flute, or should I break down the rhythm there like I did with the oboes?

 

I am sorry for not reviewing your work itself, but I am on vacation and I cannot listen to audio files on my mobile. I can, however, watch the PDFs.

The flute has almosy the same system as the saxophone regarding octave key. This is a key that allows the player to overblow the octave more easily. The same fingerings can be used an octave above, because one only has to press the octave key.

The passage, as it is now written, is well suited for the flute. I always say: when the saxophone is able to play the passage in fast tempo, it is almost a rule that the flute is capable of it too.

Legato notes can make it easier to play. I would give each four 16ths one legato bow so that the flutist only needs to attach each beat of the measure.

Thank you for the reply, @Maarten Bauer! I don't play any wind instruments, so I'm relieved to hear that I managed to write a good passage by chance. I added the bowing as suggested.

Hope you're having a wonderful vacation!

45 minutes ago, Keifer Brown said:

Thank you for the reply, @Maarten Bauer! I don't play any wind instruments, so I'm relieved to hear that I managed to write a good passage by chance. I added the bowing as suggested.

Hope you're having a wonderful vacation!

 

No problem and thank you!

I suggest that you consider buying the already mentioned book by Adler. I do not have this book, because I cannot afford it. I do have Forsyth's ORCHESTRATION. Although it is quite old (1914), it is VERY interesting read and still very useful. It describes the history, usage, characteristics of most of the orchestral instruments. The most interesting aspect in my opinion is the description of the history of the instruments, because this makes it easier to understand HOW the instruments work.

In my opinion it is a fenomenal book.