We're only human

While there are many topics about the limitations of certain instruments, I don't see any about what musicians in general are capable of. While at the Lilypond website, I saw the following image (the image tags aren't working. here's the url): http://lilypond.org/web/images/haddad-poetik3

While I understand that it is just a demonstration of the versatility of the program, it reminded me that sometimes composers think so much about the music that they forget about the musicians. Being a trombonist, I can definitely say that that is unreadable by any human. Unfortunately, it's not an entirely outlandish example. A couple years ago, the highest band at my school (which I was not in at the time) played Sensemaya by Silvestre Revueltas. It's a very challenging piece, switching around many compound meters with complicated rythms, but playable with a lot of work. However, the one thing about it that I think was completely unnecessary was that in the middle, there were 3 measures where the time signature was (5 1/2)/8. I swear I'm not making this up; I saw it for myself. I see no reason why that couldn't have been 11/16. I don't even want to ask how those measures were conducted!

Another thing about musicians, specifically wind players, is that we have to breathe. Even if you don't care whether or not we live, we still need air in order to play your music. Last year we played the 4th movement of a song called Dance Movements. It was a good piece and fun to play, but apparantly the clarinets had about 20 measures of moving 16th notes with nowhere to breathe. This isn't just a case of stagger-breathing or students whining that the music is too hard. Our conductor showed the music to the clarinet teacher who comes to our school, and he said it was impossible too. He's a professional clarinetist, so he knows what he's talking about. Our conductor ended up rewriting the parts.

Please share any other things that you've seen (or even written) that neglected to account for biology or other such "trivial" matters.

http://lilypond.org/web/images/haddad-poetik3

*Head esplodes*

No...just, no.

This message reaches me.

In January, I began writing a serenade for six wind instruments - 2 clarinets, 2 bassoons and 2 horns - that I thought had potential. As I finished the development section, I stopped working as I was concerned that the phrases in secondary theme and the development were too long. Being a singer, I'm sympathetic with the plight of wind players, and since this was a piece of chamber music, one on a part, I sought out the guidance of a clarinet-playing acquaintance - a consummate professional who I knew would give it to me straight from an accomplished player's point of view. He said most of it was fine, and the sections I was concerned about were doable (but just barely); but what I'd written for the bassoons in a few places was asking a great deal.

I can't figure out a way to get the same or a similar effect and give the poor blighters a break, so I've set the piece aside indefinitely. Something will come to me, I'm sure, but there's no point continuing in the same vein if it requires the players to grow an extra lung or circular breathe through the whole piece.

Robots! You need robots!

My friend and I, both being insane bassoonists, are in the process of designing a mechanized bassoon. Whee.

That measure is playable - to some degree. What you would need is a computer to play it back perfectly, then memorize the sound of it and then perform it from memory. This would only work if played by a single person (a pianist) and if it was played at a slow tempo.

But still, complexity of that degree isn't really necessary in notated music - similar and perhaps better effects can be achieved through improvisation.

What I've seen on Young Composers alone (including the old YC):

* Chromatic scale passages for harp.

* Horn parts that, while staying within the listed range for the horn, stay in the extreme upper register for 3 or 4 minutes straight with no rests.

* Horn parts that go above the horn's listed upper range (I've seen a concert A above the treble clef!)

* A trombone trill between low B-flat and C - while completely within the trombone's comfortable range, this would require the trombonist to rapidly alternate between 1st and 6th positions.

* A trombone trill between low B-flat and C - while completely within the trombone's comfortable range, this would require the trombonist to rapidly alternate between 1st and 6th positions.

I've seen trombonists try this. They nearly always end up hurting someone (never themselves) or breaking something.

* A trombone trill between low B-flat and C - while completely within the trombone's comfortable range, this would require the trombonist to rapidly alternate between 1st and 6th positions.

It can easily be done with an F attatchment, and if it's an orchestral piece, it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect F attatchments. A trill that low would sound unsusual, though. What would be bad would be like a trill between that C and the D or Db immediately above it. It would be nearly impossible to do without smearing.

* Horn parts that go above the horn's listed upper range (I've seen a concert A above the treble clef!)

That reminds me: I've seen midi file where the Tuba voice plays around in the treble clef, or the Trumpet voice goes into or below the trumpet's pedal range.

Ah, I love Finale 2006/GPO :D. The ranges of all the instruments are already set. As previously stated, though, it is still possible to have extremely difficult parts in the ranges of the instruments :wub:.

Oh, and I've actually played Sensemaya before :). There's a piano part in it, usually just accompanying with a lot of forte fortissimo chords :P. It was a fun piece, though, with (as you said) a bunch of wierd rythms.

I play the harp - you can do chromatic scales as fast as your feet allow it.

I play the harp - you can do chromatic scales as fast as your feet allow it.

Ah, but how fast are your feet? Sixteenth notes at 90 quarter notes per measure? ;-)

I am glad you brought that up

I can't speak for all composers but those who are egotistic and shallow should listen...who are you trying to impress???