supreme compositions and composers

what do you think are the fathers of music the most talented ones and there pieces

I think mozart , wagner, beethoven

Mozart´s last symphonys are supreme

what do you think are the fathers of music the most talented ones and there pieces

I think mozart , wagner, beethoven

Mozart´s last symphonys are supreme

Bethoven.. yea... Mozart... sure... Wagner - WHAT?!? where did you get him in? I'd rather say Carl Maria Von Weber, Rimsky-korsakov or even Verdi instead of him!

I gotta agree...Wagner comes out of left field on that!

I think wagner is one of the best musicians ever youst listen to his operas or maybe tchaikovsky js bach ányway which do you think they are the best, supreme greatest comnposers?

tchaikovsky maybe..... or vivaldi as the other option. but deffinetly not Wagner. Saw the Tannhauser and i HATED it.

I think Wagner can get a little repetitive after a time, but...

Whenever I hear Wagner Seigfried Idyll, I cannot help but be moved. The very strains of the music lift me, its antipodes are the sweet kiss of a lover to the passionate cries of dawn's first light. There is no single orchestral work that is as beautiful as this.

Of course, if you wanted me to discuss early masters, then I must include Bruckner, whose concept of the Symphony was truly revolutionary. Who can stand and sneer at the triumph of Bruckner's 4th, or the moving unfinished close to his 9th?

'Tis a shame there are so many ardent anti-Brucknerites still running around.

Rachmaninoff's Symphony No. 2 in E minor, Op. 27 - movement 3. For me the most beautiful melody ever. I've I hear it, I just go: "Beethoven who?" :P

Rachmaninoff's Symphony No. 2 in E minor, Op. 27 - movement 3. For me the most beautiful melody ever. I've I hear it, I just go: "Beethoven who?"

Looks like this is turning into the underappreciated composers/pieces forum again.....

The point is: we can never agree upon who're the greatest masters of all time. This will change depending upon the person (and the society). I think it's better if we change this forum to "What compositions/composers have most influenced you and (your composition) and WHY?" This would seem to be a more worthwhile topic to explore rather than having us battle our opinions out about who's the best composer.

So, to give one example I will offer Sibelius' 4th Symphony in A Minor. I simply think it is a very moving work, which touches the innermost depths of the human spirit.

I hope that by naming some of these special pieces, we can turn each other on to other compositions we may not be aware of and appreciate their beauty. To me this seems more productive than trying to identify the greatest masterpieces with which most of us are already familiar.

I hate to be a drama queen but has anyone heard Prokofiev's Romeo and Juliet - Montagues and Capulets? The currently my favorite piece.....

i think the thread title can be left as it is, because it is not subjective if a composer was good at composing or not.

for example, wagner was obviously a good composer, even though i don't think highly of his work.

While you might not like some works of some composers, they can still be good compositions.

There are other aspects to the pieces you would definately judge according to personal taste though.

I hate to be a drama queen but has anyone heard Prokofiev's Romeo and Juliet - Montagues and Capulets? The currently my favorite piece.....

Wolf, darling, you only get to be a drama queen if you're a queen in the first place. :)

"Romeo and Juliet" - the entire ballet - is my favourite work of Prokoffiev's by a long shot, and Montegues and Capulets is one of the best dances in the work...very stirring.

I first saw the ballet when I was 15, and I have yet to make it through the final scene - listening or watching - without crying.

Here are some of my favorites (even though there are tons more):

Mass for Three Voices by William Byrd (also 4 and 5 voices)

Missa Brevis in G-Minor by J. S. Bach

Mass in B-Minor by J. S. Bach

English Suite No. 3 by J. S. Bach

Orchestral Suite No. 2 by J. S. Bach

Art of the Fugue by J. S. Bach (I've been trying to find this recording of it with String Ensemble and the upper voice is doubled with flute... specifically Contrapunctus IX if anyone knows which recording this is)

Concerto for Flute and Harp by Mozart

Great Mass in c Minor by Mozart

Requiem by Mozart

Keyboard Concerto in D-Minor BWV 1052 by J. S. Bach

Symphonies No. 2, 3, 7 & 9 by Beethoven

Sonata No. 32 "Appassionata" by Beethoven

Piano Concerto No. 1 by Brahms

Any of the late Clarinet works by Brahms

Eight Pieces for Clarinet, Viola and Piano by Max Bruch

Lux Aterna by Morten Lauridsen

...I'll add more soon

i see that many people are interested in the "beauty" of music, so i will list a few:

symphonies:

Beethoven symphony 6,7,8,9

Mahler symphony #4, 5(exquisie third,fourth movement) ,9 (greates andante ever written!)

Tchakovesky symphony 6

Schubert symphony 5,8,9

Bruckner symphony 9

Mozart late symphonies

Dvorak, symphony 7,8 (exquisite third movement)

(probably more, i haven't heard the other ones, the 9th one is overrated)

I'd have to disagree on "greatest andante ever written"... IMHO that's the slow movement of Borodin's Symphony No. 2.

The most amazing work, Sibelius symphony n.5. It's the closest work that has made me want to poor out in tears,( I should probably put this in the other thread)

The piece is absolutely one of my favorites,It is not too passionate, too angry and forceful it is just right and has soooo much soul..(I'm listening to it right now!)

I highly reccomend it

Here are some of my favorites (even though there are tons more):

Art of the Fugue by J. S. Bach (I've been trying to find this recording of it with String Ensemble and the upper voice is doubled with flute... specifically Contrapunctus IX if anyone knows which recording this is)

...I'll add more soon

Robert Simpson transcribed Art of the Fugue for String Quartet, including the completion of Contrapunctus XIV by Tovey. It is available on Hyperion Records CDA67138.

Wagner - WHAT?!? where did you get him in?

On a historical note, Wagner has the same impact that Beethoven does - there is a huge school of thought that springs up around him, mostly through something called "anxiety of influence" - a term that refers to the competition that composers face not from their contemporaries, but from composers that have gone before. Anxiety of influence results in two types of action. 1) Avoid forms a previous composer is known for, and 2) twist forms the previous composer used to suit your own styles. Hector Berlioz' Symphonie Fantastique, for instance, uses many of the same forms Beethoven uses in his 9th Symphony, but twists them for Berlioz' purposes. As far as Wagner's influence goes, Arnold Schoenberg was a Wagnerist composer, using Wagner's techniques, though avoiding his forms, until he decided to break from Wagner's style and began championing twelve-tone music, eventually becoming one of the founders of the Second Viennese School, and becoming the next composer in the anxiety of influence line, precipitating the return to tonality, begun by Charles Ives and Aaron Copland.

The point of all this is that Wagner is at least as historically important as Beethoven, and therefore deserves his place.

Here are some of my favorites (even though there are tons more):

[...]

Lux Aterna by Morten Lauridsen

AMEN!!!

I'd also like to add to this list of "bests":

Aaron Copland - Symphony #3 - Fanfare for the Common Man comes from the fourth movement of this symphony, and personally, I like the symphonic version better

And Appalachian Spring. Awesome piece.

Joaquin Rodrigo - Concierto de Aranjuez, and Concierto para una fiesta - two really amazing guitar concertos.

Thomas Tallis - Spem in alium - a motet for 8 5-part choirs - 40 vocal lines, folks.

And as far as Lauridsen goes:

Chansons des Roses

Mid-winter Songs

Ludoslawski - Concerto for Chamber Orchestra

On more modern lines:

Jennifer Higdon - Concerto for Orchestra

Marcelle Pierson - Shadow - I heard the premiere of this piece last night - it's amazing

My favorites, in no specific order:

Arvo Pärt - Berliner Messe + De profundis

Palestrina - Missa aeterna christi munera + Sicut cervus

Morten Lauridsen - Lux aeterna (especially 'O nata lux')

Steve Dobrogosz - Mass

Nobuo Uematsu - Song of Prayer (variations)

Eric Whitacre - Sleep + Lux aurumque

Gabriel Fauré - Requiem, especially 'Pie Jesu'

Frank Martin - Messe pour double choeur a cappella

Ingvar Lidholm - Laudi

Maurice Duruflé - Requiem + Ubi caritas et amor (from Quatre motets)

Händel - Zadock the Priest

Felix Mendelsohn - Hear My Prayer (the soprano solo is stunning)

GREATEST COMPOSERS:

MONTEVERDI - For Orfeo, the first proper opera, and one of the most moving moments in opera (Tu Ce Morta Mia Vita, Orfeo's lament.)

BACH - For the greatest fugues ever written (try to breath correctly while listening to the Kunst der Fugue) the most "flexible" of all Baroque Music and possibly the greatest religious work ever: the B-minor Mass.

HANDEL - For the happiest and most brilliant of operas and oratorios (exactly why Messiah's Hallelujah Chorus got so famous.)

PURCELL - The bulk of Baroque Music is sometimes repititve and boring, but this giant of British classical music stinks with emotion, which isn't easy to find properly in Baroque Music: "Dido and Aeneas" has been compared to a "trip through the skies", "Come Ye Sons of Art" is one of the most glorious moments in history and Queen Mary's Funeral Music is brilliantly scary.

HAYDN - Father of the symphony, the string quartet, the modern orchestra, the lack of continuo, classical melodic lines, instructor of Beethoven... Should I go on? Haydn is like a father to modern composers, as he is responsible for the popularization of the symphony and the string quartet, two of the most important forms of music. Kindly referred to as "papa", a title invented by Mozart and also used by Beethoven.

MOZART - Ah! Mozart! Divine Mozart! Why does everyone say he's divine? Simple: well... I can't explain, really. Just listen to the finale of Act II from the Marriage of Figaro, the final Commendatore scene from Don Giovanni or the Vengeance Aria from the Magic Flute: elementar, my dear Watson: it's all in the opera. Opera was his best subject and he always got A plus. Pure genius. God was bored some day in Heaven during the 1750's and decided to take a little peace from his essence and turn it into a short, Austrian man, with slightly deformed ears and the greatest of egos.

BEETHOVEN - Please: Beethoven IS the greatest composer of all time. While Mozart was the voice of God, Beethoven was the voice of mankind. The Sturm und Drang movement was exaggerated a little bit and turned into Beethoven's middle period. However, his later years are the greatest. The Hammerklavier, the Ninth Symphony (with the EU anthem Ode to Joy) and his last string quartets are possibly the greatest music ever. Such a genius that he wrote the greatest of music while being totally deaf, unable to hear anything but the sounds that came from his own heart. What a man, my friends, and a what a soul!

ROSSINI - Why is this funny, fat little man in this list, my friends? One can call the Overture to L'Italiana in Algieri "classical", but what's so classical about it? That's right: Rossini had the mood. We can easily hum his melodies and we can clap at his operatic moments. That's also why so many cartoons have his music, like the Barber of Seville and the William Tell Overture. He is barely a classical artist: as far as I see it, he's a bumbling little twit who can make a jackass from a serious and stif politian. "Figaro, Figaro, Figaro Figaro Figarofigarofigarofigaro Figaro! Ahí me!" Who writes like this? Oh, what a buffoon...

WAGNER - Ooooooooo! Whatch out! This bloke is one heavy subject! He literally DESTROYED the musical world from his time and carved out his mark in history with iron and blood. A true giant and master of his evil schemes: he is perhaps a hidden dark wizard who bewitched the world with his Norwegian myths and legends. This fellow here is NOT your everyday person. He build a teather specially for his own operas and made an operatic cycle lasting no less than some colossal FIFTEEN hours: it is called the Ring of Nibelung and it's basically enough to cause a stroke to a man in his mid fifties. Oh, and please try not to have a brain hemorrage while watching Parsifal. Not that you'll scare the audience, because they'll be either screaming or fainted, and you'll frighten the singers either: they would prefer to stand the noise of a Boeing 747 landing.

DEBUSSY - "Everything he does is wrong, but with an amazing talent". Those are the words of composere Jules Massenet, Claude Debussy's composition teacher. Sure: Debussy was an avid impressionist and subject of lots of controversy, specially from Camille Saint-Saens, who would have loved to rip off his guts. He was accused of "harmonic heresies", which is what Modern "Music" is full off. He was only understood by a group of a madmen called "Debussyists", who struggled against the traditionalists, who were with big pappa Saint Saens. Don't criticize Claude too much for his sexual scandals, because he might just obliterate you with a six-note dissonant chord.

SCHOENBERG - I can't stand this guy. I hate him. He's much worst than Debussy. Oh yes, you can't compare them. This guy's harmonically RETARTADED! (And he does with a lot of genius.) ARRGH! Look at the tons of bull he produced! They sound like a dying chicken! So... why is he here? Because he did something quite marking and also dreadfull: he used atonality with plenty, and DESTROYED the world of music: music turned into stupid dissonant noise. Not even Debussy would have liked it. Only a few revivalists from the past survived.

Oy!

Thats highly opinionated

Perhaps, but I can assure you it's not a merely personal opinion.

Ha ha, well I really doubt that Schoenberg is harmonically retarded. There are so many musical nuggets in his music. Plus J.S. Bach is the real twelve tone composer(literally) he employed all twelve tones way before schoenbergs/bergs/Webern.

I can sort of agree on that wagner idea, but I find myself changing very quickly:)

Very pleasant to read though :innocent:

All worthy, but there are too many other composers who are being overlooked here.

Drop Handel, Purcell, Rossini, and Debussy, for the following:

MENDELSSOHN - Rivaled Mozart as a child prodigy, even exceeding him in some ways: Mendelssohn reached a greater level of musical maturity at an earlier age, as seen in his string symphonies, his string octet, and his incidental music to A Midsummer Night's Dream. His significance in music is not only as a composer - he was also almost singlehandedly responsible for the revival of Baroque music in Europe.

BRAHMS - Greatest craftsman in the history of music, without a doubt. Few Brahms pieces are not masterworks.

STRAVINSKY - Although I personally dislike his music, it certainly made audiences take note. His radical chromaticism literally started riots in Paris and inspired future composers who not only bent but shattered tonality.

SHOSTAKOVICH - With his preludes and fugues for piano, he proved a worthy successor to Bach's legacy, and he stands as one of the giants of 20th century symphonic composition. His originality stands out in spite of the limits that Soviet authority placed on his music.