Key signitures

How on earth does one go about selecting a key signature to fit the music that comes up in their head. Do you just analyze how many sharps/ flats are there and go from there or what?

just choose the key you think would be best for what kind of piece your writing.

for example: if I had an idea for a Polka in mind, I would choose something like D major or E major, since a Polka is generally happy and free sounding

And if I had an idea for a nocturne, I would choose something like the key of Bb Major or Db minor, since these keys tend to have a sadder and somewhat more mysterious sound

that's just my method

I usually write in the easiest key to sing/play in. If I'm working a lot in pentatonic scales then I'll usually use Gb or Db. If I'm writing with a lot of solid chords I'll usually use D or G (partly for an easier swich to guitar if I want to). If I'm going back and forth between major and minor keys I'll usually go between A and F#m. For promanantly minor pieces I usually use C#m. There are a lot of exceptions, and sound of the key plays a major role as Carulli said.

I never use key signatures. It's just easier that way - since my music either has no tonal centre (i.e. 'key') or, it's modally based and the key-centre changes often. ...

Also, as a performer, I prefer seeing accidentals in lieu of a key sig - people can forget a key, but it's harder to ignore an accidental.

I used to make use of key signatures, but lately I'd agree with Robin. In modern music conforming to one key is silly, I think. (Unless i'm writing something pseudo classical or neo something or whatever...)

:P

How on earth does one go about selecting a key signiture to fit the music that comes up in their head. Do you just analyze how many sharps/ flats are there and go from there or what?

A number of people seem to be responding with the assumption that you have something like a melody in your head and can't decide what key to actually write it in. But based on the way you are phrasing your question, it sounds to me like you are talking about something that you have already composed, have the notes on paper, but are unsure of how to go about identifing the correct key signature.

If the latter is the case, then either you are unable to identify the tonal center (in many cases Do - as in Do Re Me), OR the tonal center or modality is ambiguous. In which case, I and others may have suggestions but don't want waste time on it if this isn't the what you are asking.

If the former is the case, then there are any number of considerations. It certainly helps to have a particular performer or ensemble in mind, knowing what the instrumentation is can influence fingerings and ease of perfomance, open strings etc. Also, VERY important to me - the tonal color of the key chosen. But in fact, there are many other considerations.

Can you be more specific about what it is you don't understand?

>_< Sorry for the confusion. I dont really have anything on paper... moreover in my head, and was wondering how you know which key signiture fits the song that is playing (kinda like hearing a song on the radio and figuring out its key). I think leightwing got closesed to what I was aiming for... but it's still difficult to say.

Modes are much easier to identify, as they all have differant tonal qualities (although some are very close). Keys, however, all have the same quality, just starting from differant pitches. Because of this, keys of songs on the radio they can very difficult to figure out. I have done this a few times, but because of my lack of perfect pitch I had to use my piano and mess around a bit until I found the right key.

Modes are much easier to identify, as they all have differant tonal qualities (although some are very close). Keys, however, all have the same quality, just starting from differant pitches. Because of this, keys of songs on the radio they can very difficult to figure out. I have done this a few times, but because of my lack of perfect pitch I had to use my piano and mess around a bit until I found the right key.

Wow... that kinda completely missed my point... but oh well... maybe by radio i should say 106.9 the classical station... that better... only it's in my head.

By the way, what the heck is a mode... >_< I've never heard of that before... either that or I just forgot.

Haha, sorry. You talking about radio just made me think of indentifying keys. As far as modes are concerned: Modes are fixed orders of diatonic scales within an octave. Each octave contains 12 modes, I have only studied 7 of the 12 modes. Basically a mode has the same key signature as its relative major key, but instead of going from tonic to tonic (1-1, do-do, whatever you want to call it) in a scale, you go from one of the other notes in the scale up an octave. For example: a dorian scale is from supertonic (2-2) to super-tonic an octave up. In order, the modes are: Ionian (tonic-tonic, also major), dorian (supertonic-supertonic), phrygian (mediant-mediant), lidian (subdominant-subdominant), mixalidian (dominant-dominant), aolian (submediant-submediant, also minor), and locrian (leading tone-leading tone). The other 5 modes have to do with sharps and flats and are actually based off of a cromatic scale, but I havent studied them much. I hope this helps, it probably just confused you more. Go HERE for a little better explanation.

To chose the key to use, I play some chords then analyze them. Ta-da, instant key signature.

To decide which key, if I don't have a motiff: Mash hands on keyboard until something sounds right. (Not accurate but close enough)

Highbrow: Never use key signatures, even if episodes inadvertantly go into keys.

Lowbrow: sometimes use keys and they'll be apparent if I'm thinking of piano because I'll either play the thing or visualise myself playing it. Usually D-flat, C-flat, G-flat* or A. Minors: C or E-flat.

M

* because I once played and practiced in a venue that had a piano with its tuning stabilised a semi-tone flat. So I'd have to transpose up for instrumentalists playing in C and B-flat and F. Nothing fancy, just cocktail-bar-style music but there's nothing quite like necessity for improving transposition on the fly!

:glare: I don't get why this is so hard. Let me try to explain this one more time. I hear a song in my head (yes that means everything... not just a motif or theme or whatever). I just want to know how to tell what key it is in. Do I analyze how many sharps/ flats there are and then pick the majority and easiest to play, or do I do something else.

By the way.. thanks for the information on modes pianoman216

:glare: I don't get why this is so hard. Let me try to explain this one more time. I hear a song in my head (yes that means everything... not just a motif or theme or whatever). I just want to know how to tell what key it is in. Do I analyze how many sharps/ flats there are and then pick the majority and easiest to play, or do I do something else.

By the way.. thanks for the information on modes pianoman216

Well, I believe we already answered that question.

You can use relative pitch, or go about it the hard way.

With relative pitch, you determine the intervals between notes, then use your knowledge of Theory to figure out what key you're in, and mode if applicable.

If you don't have good relative pitch, well, you can always try to figure your piece out on a piano then write it down, then use your Theory knowledge. Not the preferable option.

Sorry >< now I'm the one that's confused... which intervals would you use, and how would you use them... I am not connecting the dots between having intervals and automatically finding a key... :glare: I don't really know that much about using music theory in composition... I am new after all

Sorry >< now I'm the one that's confused... which intervals would you use, and how would you use them... I am not connecting the dots between having intervals and automatically finding a key... :glare: I don't really know that much about using music theory in composition... I am new after all

Ok, then you're going to have a hard time. I don't know any way to do it without having knowledge of some Theory, and no practical way of doing it without good relative pitch.

Relative pitch means you can identify the interval between two notes. I can hear a doorbell ring, or two notes play somewhere and instantly tell you what interval they are, like minor 7th (drive me crazy, ugh) perfect 5ths, etc. It takes some ear training to develope.

:glare: I don't get why this is so hard. Let me try to explain this one more time. I hear a song in my head (yes that means everything... not just a motif or theme or whatever). I just want to know how to tell what key it is in. Do I analyze how many sharps/ flats there are and then pick the majority and easiest to play, or do I do something else.

By the way.. thanks for the information on modes pianoman216

I dont really think it matters if you get it in the exact key in which its playing through your head. Play around with it. Try it in some differant keys and see what you like best.

I hear a song in my head (yes that means everything... not just a motif or theme or whatever). I just want to know how to tell what key it is in. Do I analyze how many sharps/ flats there are and then pick the majority and easiest to play, or do I do something else.

By the way.. thanks for the information on modes pianoman216 [/b]

Ok calcium, We need an example. First, do you have any notation software and can you write an example of what you are hearing? If you don't have the software, download a free copy of Notepad.

Don't worry about key signatures, just get it to sound right. From there, folks here might be able to analyse what you've got (although apparently a number of us can't even agree on what constitutes functional harmony). If you are unable to do this, you'll need to be able to explain why not.

Thanks for the help everybody... oh and by the way, I do know what relative pitch is, I just don't get how that links to finding a key.

Thanks for the help everybody... oh and by the way, I do know what relative pitch is, I just don't get how that links to finding a key.

It's easy. Write the music down. Analyze it. Ta-da.

I'm sorry, but I've said this several times already in this thread. If you have good enough relative pitch, write the music down and analyze it, it's basic music theory.

Thanks for the help everybody... oh and by the way, I do know what relative pitch is, I just don't get how that links to finding a key.

Finding the key of the notes in your head is just like finding the key to notes on the radio.....which is pretty much all relative pitch, either that or messing around.

Ok calcium, We need an example. First, do you have any notation software and can you write an example of what you are hearing? If you don't have the software, download a free copy of Notepad.

Don't worry about key signatures, just get it to sound right. From there, folks here might be able to analyse what you've got (although apparently a number of us can't even agree on what constitutes functional harmony). If you are unable to do this, you'll need to be able to explain why not. [/b]

Thanks for the help everybody... oh and by the way, I do know what relative pitch is, I just don't get how that links to finding a key.