Paper and pen(cil)

Tell me what do you think.

which of the following might befenif you in the long term when writing music.?

writing music on paper ...or on computer ?

Long term? Get used to writing on paper. It's faster, allows for the capturing of ideas quicker, and is portable than a computer.

There was a similar topic here:

http://www.youngcomposers.com/forum/Donand...h-it-t3822.html

I use the computer solely for notational purposes.

I find it lets you include stuff you don't (can't) hear...I used to write using Finale, which, to me was great - it could play stuff I couldn't. BUT, I ended up cramming TOO much scraggy into the piece...because I could.

I don't simplify - in fact, my music is more complex and difficult than ever, but it's for different reasons, I prefer now to extract the music from the musicians, rather than forcing it through them...

Turf the computer....sharpen a pencil, and buy a good eraser.

I think writing on paper is better for you, because although it might be slower (IMO) and you subsequently have to input everything into your notation program when you want to hear it, I find you spend more time thinking about each individual note, especially in four-part (etc.) harmony.

That's just my opinion though, but I'm going to start writing alot more on paper these days.

You need both - paper and pencil to catch and manipulate initial ideas, scores etc.

Computer for the final copy if you don't like the look of a 'personal touch'. Let's face it, most notation software can rip parts adequately. Not sure about a full orchestral score - that wouldn't be much use on pages 11"X8.5" so you'd have to get someone with an A3 printer to print them.

Certainly if there's a chance of large-scale publication, the computer would seem a must.

Ha! Me too! Noteworthy is SO fast!

I think writing on paper is better for you, because although it might be slower (IMO) and you subsequently have to input everything into your notation program when you want to hear it, I find you spend more time thinking about each individual note, especially in four-part (etc.) harmony.

That's just my opinion though, but I'm going to start writing alot more on paper these days.

your opinion is exactly the same as mine Daniel.

And here's a little question

Did Beethoven or Mozart or any of the big 3 and others use computers?

of course not, there was no such thing then. I personally believe that because they HAD to do everything by hand, they had a much better understanding of what makes a good piece of music.

I've seen this question asked so many times, and I've really thought about it. I think the old saying "the end justifies the means" comes into play. If you can write better on the computer, then do so. If you can write better on paper, then do so.

Who knows, maybe Mozart would have preferred using a computer if the option had presented itself.

of course not, there was no such thing then. I personally believe that because they HAD to do everything by hand, they had a much better understanding of what makes a good piece of music.

Agreed, only I'd word it differently.

I just recieved in the mail a whole new stock of paper for myself - 192 pages of 12-stave 8.5/11 looseleaf for sketching, 16 stave landscape 18/12 for orchestral writing and solos(fit more on the page if it's wider), and 20-stave 12/18 for everything else. Cost me about $30, but I had none, so it'll help me out a lot.

Ive found that writing on the computer hurts my 'art music', that is, my seriously composed music, but it is easier for my 'commercial music', or whatever I do for video games, film, arrangements, etc. I tend to write down first then put it into Sibelius or Finale for the performers.

But anyway, regardless, I've found that as I'm getting more experienced in composition, it is easier for me to plan ahead. So writing on the computer tends to produce different and better results than what it used to, because I am more able to predict what I want to put in, rather than have to search around a bit.

Hmm are you talking about searching around for the right note?

Or are you talking in a more long-term structural sense?

I think I know what you mean.

Ive found that writing on the computer hurts my 'art music', that is, my seriously composed music,

It would be an impediment trying to score on, say, 28 staves when you can only see about ten on the screen. Although orchestration has been decided long before grabbing the score paper, I still like to cast my eye over the whole page when refreshing (in mind) what it sounds like (and perhaps changing my mind).

Other factors:

1) You don't have to wait for a computer to fire up then go through the biz of getting a file started. You just grab paper and pencil (that doesn't crash either) and off you go.

2) Travelling a fair bit and composing at odd moments, paper is just more convenient.

3) These software aids only work well with standard notation. It's little use for electronica and electroacoustic music.

But:

if you hope to publish on a reasonable scale, the computer wins.

If you hate writing out parts and the occaional mistakes - most embarrassing at rehearsal - the computer wins and now you can get an approximation of the sound with some notation software, you can tell when it's right and just the rip the parts.

I prefer paper for a reason that many of you are probably going to find strange: I actually find it harder to compose when I'm physically hearing what I'm writing, because it causes me to lose my train of thought and get stuck in a rut listening to and tweaking what I just put on the page. Hence, computer software slows me down a whole lot.

Montpellier already mentioned some of the other advantages of paper. Another one that's similar to something he mentioned, but not quite the same, is the ability to spread an entire piece across a table (or the floor, if it's too long for the table!) and see the entire piece all at once. When composing on a computer, it's easy to fall into the trap of just seeing three or four measures at a time, and forgetting about the big picture.

I agree with you there actually - when I use computer notation software, I find it very useful to just mute the speakers or whatever.

Good idea about spreading the piece out by the way... I will try that.

I prefer papers.

I normally compose on papers and once I finish the entire piece than I drop them on computers to keep the file.

I think composing on papers will help more than composing on computers.

Paper is good for prototyping.

A computer is good for editing. That way things stay clean, and don't have to be rewritten if a few measures are to be inserted, etc.

So just like what everyone else already said:)

People have complained it's bad to hear the music as you write and only seeing part of the piece.

Uh...

1) Turn off the sound

2) Write on page format with little zoom on Finale.

I prefer paper and pencil over everything. Using a computer is kind of just sterile. Paper is the best stuff in my opinion.

Using a computer is kind of just sterile

Sterile. That's the word for it! And you're right - it turns a beautiful, organic, art into something clinical and mechanical.

...

Tell me what do you think.

which of the following might befenif you in the long term when writing music.?

writing music on paper ...or on computer ?

I think there are benefits to both...

I have, from the start, used a notation program to input notes. Not exclusively, but mostly. Primarily I did this so I could hear the music I was writing - especially if I didn't yet have the technical ability to play it.

But the downside to this, especially with the program I have used from the beginning (Cakewalk) is that I missed getting into alot of habits and proper ways of doing things that would have been neccessary had I only used paper. Even embarressingly simple things like how to correctly write a treble cleff, repeat signs, and basic musical notation things.

I beleive in some respects using computer notation is quicker, if you know your program well. Copy/paste, quick and thoughtless transpositions and other features let you experiment quickly with ideas rather than painstakingly write them down only to find that they don't work like you wanted.

However, writing things out on paper, means you have to give more forethought. I started and got halfway through a 4part fuge only on paper, and it meant alot of thinking prior to setting notes down, it was VERY good discipline for working out the outline of a piece, where harmonies would fall, what key changes would be involved etc.

So I think there are benefits to both. And I would recommend disciplining oneself to do both.

People have complained it's bad to hear the music as you write and only seeing part of the piece.

Uh...

1) Turn off the sound

2) Write on page format with little zoom on Finale.

That only works if you write short pieces. Take a look at anything I've written - if you zoom out enough to see the entire piece, you can't read any of the notes!

I'm wondering how people with paper and pencil write pieces for orchestra... Do they- like- only write music they can play with two hands? For 15 instruments? Just curiosity of how you do... Can you hear the music in your head? Can you hear how it sounds for orchestra? I mainly use Sibelius for my composing... Though pencil and paper sounds cool, I just don't know how I could write for orchestra on it.

I'm wondering how people with paper and pencil write pieces for orchestra... Do they- like- only write music they can play with two hands? For 15 instruments? Just curiosity of how you do... Can you hear the music in your head? Can you hear how it sounds for orchestra? I mainly use Sibelius for my composing... Though pencil and paper sounds cool, I just don't know how I could write for orchestra on it.

I write in 4-hand piano scores.

Well, my first piece was written for orchestra, and almost entirely with pencil and paper. I wrote in short score (four staves), with indications of what instruments were supposed to be playing each line.