Fall 2019 Competition: POOR FORM ANNOUNCEMENT

This is my first competition, so how should I submit my Suite?

1 hour ago, isuckatcomposing said:

This is my first competition, so how should I submit my Suite?

 

Thank you for asking. The following information has been added:
"A separate topic for submissions will be available at the end of the entrant application period."

I'm submitting early, reason why is in the thread.

22 minutes ago, isuckatcomposing said:

I'm submitting early, reason why is in the thread

Fair enough. I won't take a look at it until everyone's submitted theirs, just on principle, though.

2 hours ago, Monarcheon said:

Fair enough. I won't take a look at it until everyone's submitted theirs, just on principle, though.

 

yes, that is fair

i suggest for future contest, you set a date when the entries can start so that way super early submissions like mine don't get posted. 

12 minutes ago, isuckatcomposing said:

yes, that is fair

i suggest for future contest, you set a date when the entries can start so that way super early submissions like mine don't get posted. 

 

We normally do. We don't open a submissions link until after the registration period. Our other contests have done that.

Some questions:

1 So far as judging goes, do the composers retain anonymity?

2 Does the 'shared material' have to be in the same rhythm as the first statement?

3 Does the shared material always have to start on the same note (as opposed to any other of the 11 chromatic notes or microtones in any part of the instrument's compass)?

Thanks if you can inform.

2 hours ago, Quinn said:

Some questions:

1 So far as judging goes, do the composers retain anonymity?

2 Does the 'shared material' have to be in the same rhythm as the first statement?

3 Does the shared material always have to start on the same note (as opposed to any other of the 11 chromatic notes or microtones in any part of the instrument's compass)?

Thanks if you can inform.

 

1. No, but I can assure you this has never been, and will continue to not be a problem.
2. Copied answer: "Recognizability is key. Obviously it's more clear if the opening material is repeated exactly with orchestration and harmony, but there isn't a deduction, per se, as long as it's really clear." So, "no", but it helps to be, to maintain recognizability.
3. Same basic answer as 2; the more things you hold the same, the better (i.e. orchestration, rhythm, etc.), but there isn't an explicit deduction for things like that as long as it's immediately clear the same material is used. I would perhaps be wary of starting the melody in the tenor voice as opposed to the soprano, for example, if it had been soprano up to a point, since that requires both a register transfer and a change of orchestration.

Thank you.

1 hour ago, Quinn said:

 

Thank you.

 

 

Sorry, but I have to ask: were you intending on registering, or just asking for information?

I thought I was registered. I can sign in (although the password is a bit hit and miss)!

9 minutes ago, Quinn said:

I thought I was registered. I can sign in (although the password is a bit hit and miss)!

 

Oh, sorry, I meant for the competition. We like to get a sense of how many pieces the judges will be looking at before the end of the registration period so we have interested competitors signal their intent to participate.

Unsure at the moment. I have a week to decide but it's probably going to be no. The sticking points are anonymity and the score. I'd write for a solo instrument so I'd handwrite the score or tart up what's produced by my DAW which is far too literal for its own good. That means somehow making up a pdf for online submission.

On the time limit, are the movements of maximum 5 minutes each, or the whole suite should be under 5 minutes?

I didn't realize this problem after I finished a 4:55 long movement...

6 minutes ago, HoYin Cheung said:

On the time limit, are the movements of maximum 5 minutes each, or the whole suite should be under 5 minutes?

The former.

3 minutes ago, Monarcheon said:

The former.

 

Phew. Glad to hear that. Thank you!

#Let'sMakeThemAllSuperLong

I commend the originality of the idea for this competition. I agree that it potentially provides for a lot of creativity.

I would like to know whether when you say "Movements must be at least 1 minute long", it is meant literally 60 seconds. I was trying my hand at one development of an idea and I ended up with a movement that was 48 seconds or so long. I wonder whether submitting a work with such movements that are almost but not quite 1 minute long would incur penalties. I am not one who subscribes to forced lengthening of compositions just to meet a designated minimum. I believe it is inspiration alone that should decide the form, course and length of a movement in a composition. So I wonder why there is even a minimum length of movement designated in this competition. I believe such a minimum would not be conductive to creative freedom. My participation in this competition, therefore, would to a great extent depend on the answer to the above question.

1 hour ago, luderart said:

I commend the originality of the idea for this competition. I agree that it potentially provides for a lot of creativity.

I would like to know whether when you say "Movements must be at least 1 minute long", it is meant literally 60 seconds. I was trying my hand at one development of an idea and I ended up with a movement that was 48 seconds or so long. I wonder whether submitting a work with such movements that are almost but not quite 1 minute long would incur penalties. I am not one who subscribes to forced lengthening of compositions just to meet a designated minimum. I believe it is inspiration alone that should decide the form, course and length of a movement in a composition. So I wonder why there is even a minimum length of movement designated in this competition. I believe such a minimum would not be conductive to creative freedom. My participation in this competition, therefore, would to a great extent depend on the answer to the above question.

 

Let me ask a follow up question to you then... how long is your shared material? Perhaps enough of an exception can be made. 
I ask this because only 5% of the movement needs to be shared material. In a 48 second work, that means only 2.4 seconds must be shared, which is not a ton. 

1 hour ago, Monarcheon said:

Let me ask a follow up question to you then... how long is your shared material? Perhaps enough of an exception can be made. 
I ask this because only 5% of the movement needs to be shared material. In a 48 second work, that means only 2.8 seconds must be shared, which is not a ton. 

 

About 6 seconds long including the final rest. Without it, it is a little less, 4.8 seconds. If it is a problem, I might work on and post it as a piece "inspired by this competition" and not enter it in the competition. The movement is not finished by the way. I am still revising it and now it's about 50 seconds long. But the problem might recur in the next 3 or more movements.

The time maximum is more important to me than the minimum. The minimum is added basically to ensure sufficient motivic development. It is difficult to do so with less than 45 seconds of new material, at least when you apply Forte or Perle's analytical systems (Schenker and Koch are bit more lenient). If you're so inclined, please update me on the lengths of the movements as they are written, when I'm able to make a more comprehensive judgment.
Basically what I'm trying to say is, if you're close enough to a minute, fine; you won't be penalized if it's close enough. However, there are other criteria that could be affected by it, but not necessarily if the writing is tight enough 🙂 

1 hour ago, Monarcheon said:

The time maximum is more important to me than the minimum. The minimum is added basically to ensure sufficient motivic development. It is difficult to do so with less than 45 seconds of new material, at least when you apply Forte or Perle's analytical systems (Schenker and Koch are bit more lenient). If you're so inclined, please update me on the lengths of the movements as they are written, when I'm able to make a more comprehensive judgment.
Basically what I'm trying to say is, if you're close enough to a minute, fine; you won't be penalized if it's close enough. However, there are other criteria that could be affected by it, but not necessarily if the writing is tight enough 🙂 

 

Thanks for the clarification. I'll see what I will do.  I still have some time to decide whether I will enter the competition....

@luderart That's fair enough. I'd encourage you to, still. If you've listened to the music by Anton Webern, he wrote incredibly short pieces,  often just under a minute, but the writing is so subtle and tight that they're extremely well known and revered by theorists (i.e. Op. 10). You don't have to write as well as Webern, but that kind of approach (making sure relationships of similar types are omnipresent) is not a bad one. 

I agree. Writing well developed pieces it's challenging, but it can be satisfying, too.

16 hours ago, Monarcheon said:

The time maximum is more important to me than the minimum. The minimum is added basically to ensure sufficient motivic development. It is difficult to do so with less than 45 seconds of new material, at least when you apply Forte or Perle's analytical systems (Schenker and Koch are bit more lenient). If you're so inclined, please update me on the lengths of the movements as they are written, when I'm able to make a more comprehensive judgment.
Basically what I'm trying to say is, if you're close enough to a minute, fine; you won't be penalized if it's close enough. However, there are other criteria that could be affected by it, but not necessarily if the writing is tight enough 🙂 

 

I think you should have stated that in your original expectations. It rules out through-composition and by inference from the names you've quoted it looks like it'll be judged on the technical and analytical rather than the musical....so, I'll sit out for this one. One of the movements I completed is through-composed.