King's Arrival in CM

Hi, here my new composition, arranged for brass (2trumpets and 3trombone ATB), timpani and string section.  As you can see it's totally inspired in baroque music and composers such as Haendel. It probably has also a bit of classic influence, but mainly baroque.

I thought it to be appropiate to post that for the new year, since it has a celebration character.

I wish you a happy new year 2020 you all 😉 

You need rests in empty bars and after notes. Why are they not there?
Put bowings for strings.
It really feels just like an A and B section repeated endlessly... lost my attention after the second time.

I'm no baroque specialist (except possibly the Bach Brandenburgs) but I liked it. It fits the title, a kind of processional for a dignitary.  Perhaps a little crescendo toward the closing bars would add something. I liked the rallentando...not sure whether they did that in the period but rallentandos at the end of lively pieces seem to come in and out of fashion. My favourite Brandenburg 2 ends like that.

I'm not sure I agree with Monarcheon about the need to put in string bowings. Even in its era, this would be played by a bunch of professionals who would know perfectly well what to do. Beethoven didn't do it. (I do a fair bit of string writing always with the hope (sometimes forlorn, admittedly!) of a live performance and I think string players would be insulted with every nuance of bowing noted. I put in bowing marks when they aren't obvious or I want a deliberate effect. More important in contemporary music I'd guess.) 

Rests are a different matter. They should be there but it didn't matter to me. Anyone reading the score would know what's going on but given separate parts confusion can arise. What happens when you rip parts from the score...well, only you know that.

The rendering was pretty good too. I felt the strings were just a touch out of balance (weak) with the brass. [Edit] Perhaps a tiny bit less reverb would clarify the music at the expense of not sounding so cathedral-like. [/edit]

It's been a long time since I listened to music of this style and a pleasant listen it was too.

Well done. And a happy 2020 to you too!

Hi Quinn, thanks for your answer. You are right, I should note the bowings, thought it's always difficult...I don't play any bow instrument. 

I take note of the reverbs as well, I Will check a bit more dry sounding. 

Best wishes!

As for the bowings, I have heard this rule of thumb for marking bowings:

Quote

If you are a pianist, or play a woodwind or brass instrument, don't even bother marking bowings, no matter how much research you do into bowing, you won't know what the ideal bowing for a violin passage is aside from a loud chord on the downbeat sounding best with a downbow. Heck, even if you are a violinist, don't mark the bowings at the risk of annoying a professional violinist with the wrong marks. Just because you would bow a passage a certain way does not mean that it is the best way for a professional to bow that same passage. And even 2 professional violinists probably will disagree on the way to bow a certain passage.

I heard that rule of thumb from Thomas Goss on his Orchestration Online YouTube channel in his video about marking bowings.

Rests however always need to be marked outside of 1 situation. That situation where rests don't necessarily need marked is where you have 2 melodic voices being played by a single instrument(or in the case of a keyboard instrument, a single hand) and the 2 melodic voices have different note values. In this case, only the upper voice needs marked rests, you can leave the lower voice rests implied to avoid cluttering the measures. However, don't get carried away with this and think that for 2 instruments on a single staff, this "1 voice gets the rests marked" will apply. It doesn't. If you have 2 oboes written on a single staff, write down all the rests for both oboes, no matter how cluttered it makes the measure. If you have 2 melodic voices written for the right hand or left hand of the piano, you can get away with the upper voice being the only one with marked rests.

The reason I'm specifically mentioning it for this piece is that if they just played it detache, a lot of more important beats would be up bow, the harder of the two take make strong. Composers may not mark bowings, but they often do indicate slurs and articulations to facilitate them to be more natural.

17 minutes ago, Monarcheon said:

The reason I'm specifically mentioning it for this piece is that if they just played it detache, a lot of more important beats would be up bow, the harder of the two take make strong. Composers may not mark bowings, but they often do indicate slurs and articulations to facilitate them to be more natural.

 

As a violist, I second @Monarcheon here. While some passages may have assumed bowing patterns, a large part of this assumed bowing causes parts that -judging by the score- shouldn't be overly accented being accented more by down bows and vice versa (notes that should be accented with a nice down bow... aren't). Same thing with the articulations -what do you, as the composer, want us to play? Do you want everything legato? Staccato? Spiccato? Detache? 

Thanks for you time guys! I see a lot of knowlegde in bowing here. In my score I indicate staccato notes. For the rest of the notes should I indicate if they are legato or detaché or the direction of the bow?...I'm a bit confused right now...can someone provide some YouTube tutorial explaning string notation, please. I've Heard of lots of articulations and to be honest I'm a bit lost. 

Thanks!

"For the rest of the notes should I indicate if they are legato or detaché or the direction of the bow?"

Only if you want to. It's self explanatory as far as I can see in your piece. All you need are slurs over notes you want played during the same bow-stroke (legato); otherwise they'll be detaché (most common in this era). Staccato will be played according to the dynamic and tempo. Light, pp-mf they'd probably be "spiccato", louder ones may be hammered "martellato/martellé" or some other articulation. There are times when you need to suggest this on the score, otherwise leave string players to it!

I play viola, not to any great standard but I have yet to encounter classical scores with the bowing marked. Editors tend to phrase the music with slurs which can sometimes help with the bowing. On rare occasions an up or down stroke is indicated.

It isn't always the case or even possible to play all notes under a slur in a single bow-stroke and when not, the music/phrase itself usually implies when to change. People far more professional than I can stage-manage changing bow direction unobtrusively (like they can spin out a sustained note endlessly).

In my efforts for solo strings I take care with the phrasing because that's how I want it played but wouldn't insult a professional by putting in bowing instructions (as distinguished from articulations such as staccato, tenuto, and the usual instructions like pizz, sul ponte etc.) unless really necessary.

Well, this isn't the place to talk about period performance and scoring conventions but I'll mention looking at the facsimile of Bach's Brandenburg 2 there are no bow markings, no slurs - not even dynamics. Orchestra were pretty loose arrangements, hence I suppose the continuo to fill in as need be. Those guys would know what they were doing...according to convention. Obviously the imprecision leaves modern interpretation wide open and we'll never know exactly how this music was played except possibly through cultural context, dances, pageantry and on.

So I still think you're doing the baroque thing by leaving out the bowing unless you really want to stress a point, like you want a weak beat/entry played on a down bow or vice versa. Dynamics are a different matter because conductor and players need balance and nuance. It's all about balance really. Even so, you'll find assumptions made in baroque music. Where dynamic difference is important, lots of crescendos and diminuendos you have to notate the dynamics. 

As a rendered composition your piece is fine. Worry about these details if you get a chance for live performance. 

I may have to edit this - a bit chaotic here today!

[Edit] Have a listen to Canadian Brass playing Bach's Brandenburg 2 (last movement).

Thanks for the explanation Quinn! You helped me to clarify a few things on the topic. As I don't have a live performances in sight, I will leave it as it is, or just add some slurs on the phrases I feel must be played legato.

As you said, in the baroque period there was not much notation on articulations and dynamics. It was first in the classical period, when composers started being concerned about it, since the change of style required to do it so. 

Without those details, it was the conductor who told the musicians how to play, or probably by the trend and style of the period musicians knew who to articulate without much indications. In many cases, it was the own composer how conducts the essembly on the violin concertino or from the harpsichord.

Anyway, music history is interesting...and who knows how Brandemburg concerts used to sound, when they were first played in the 18th centuries?!

Best wishes!

Just a quick note about technique. Have a look on Wiki - search on "violin bow stroke" where the symbols and applicability of up- and down-bow strokes are explained. 

Thanks again quinn!

Brass recording of 2nd Brandenburg concerto is really nice. I love piccolo trumpet sound.

Nice piece here, very fitting for its purpose! Could I suggest perhaps modulating into another closely related major key (dominant?) rather than the parallel minor (C minor) - it makes the mood kind of dark which I'm not sure works too well in the context of the piece.

Having said that, lots of good points about this piece, I particularly like the ending - great work!

- Anthony

www.newbaroque.org - Baroque counterpoint lessons

It sounds very apropriate for it's purpose. I do find it quite repetitive, but you probably don't want to detract attention from the actual event with a developmental character to your music.

Also, I find it very well orchestrated, so there's that 🙂

Hi Anthonydaly10 and Jean Szulc, thanks for your comment. Regarding the modulation to a dominant key I think brass will be pushed out of its confortable register, either too high or too low and I like the dramatic change of modulating to the parallel minor key.