Grande valse for orchestra

Hello,

I'm a pianist and I compose for almost 2 year now. Recently, I wanted to compose something for orchestra in order to improve my orchestration skills. I choose to compose a waltz because it's a light genre and i wrote a set of waltzes this summer for piano so I know the form quite well.

Here is the audio : 

Do you like it ?

Camille_FRT__Grande_valse_de_printemps_.pdf

Great work. Nice global construction, with big ending. I thin the orchestration fits wonderfully in the style. The melody is beautiful and and sections are perfectly connected by those runnings in the wind section.

So catchy! And the big ending was... magnifique!

I'll be humming this to myself all day now. 🙂 

@Luis Hernández I'm glad you liked it !

@Tónskáld I tried to do the ending as magnificent as I can, thank you for having let me know !

Can you blow the score up so it isn't so small? it's hard to critique as is

First off,

your VSTs are awesome. breath-taking actually.

At time 2:53, how about a nice counter-melody there to add more depth.  I think the piece needs more of that.

2) Don't get caught up in the standard "oom-pah-pah."  Change the orchestration of that so the PLAYER won't get bored.

3) Fabulous ending

4) Bravo

Fantastic waltz, Orchestration is spot on. May I ask what software you use? I would die to get my strings to sound that good

On 4/8/2020 at 11:26 PM, Bradley Scarff said:

Fantastic waltz, Orchestration is spot on. May I ask what software you use? I would die to get my strings to sound that good

 

Thanks for your kind comment, I use Noteperformer on Final, but Musescore to write the score ! 🙂

On 3/15/2020 at 6:13 PM, maestrowick said:

First off,

your VSTs are awesome. breath-taking actually.

 

At time 2:53, how about a nice counter-melody there to add more depth.  I think the piece needs more of that.

2) Don't get caught up in the standard "oom-pah-pah."  Change the orchestration of that so the PLAYER won't get bored.

3) Fabulous ending

4) Bravo

 

Indeed, Noteperformer is awesome for big orchestrations like that... You’re right on the fact that I could have put counter-melody, that’s something I’ll do in the future for my next compositions! I also know that the player can be bored of that « oum - pa - pa », but it allows me to keep a certain base that makes the whole coherent. I’m glad you liked the ending so much 😉 

Why are you using the word valse instead of waltz?

@Mister Red, “Valse” is the french equivalent of “waltz” ! 😉

36 minutes ago, Camfrtt said:

@Mister Red, “Valse” is the french equivalent of “waltz” ! 😉

 

That's common knowledge. You didn't understand my question, so I'll rephrase it:

Why are you using the french word for waltz?

@Mister Red Because he's from France. You can see this on his account page.

@Camfrtt By the way, I also wanted to say that this is a really great piece! I love the orchestration and full-romantic sound! Great job!

Cute music, in style more akin to Tchaikovsky rather than Johann Strauss.

54 minutes ago, Theodore Servin said:

@Mister Red Because he's from France. You can see this on his account page.

 

His account page doesn't enter into it and I don't go around clicking on such things anyway.

I'll try again. I hope third time's the charm:

Why is the title partly in english and partly in french?

The actual title of his work is "Grande valse de printemps." Rendered in English, this means "Great (or big) spring waltz." The French word "grand" usually means "big or large," not grand like English-speakers mean it.

So, the title of his waltz is not partly in English and French. It's all in French. One of the words just happens to be an English cognate.

"Grande Valse for orchestra" = partly french, partly english, but never mind, I guess that's not the title. I was wondering why not "pour Orchestre." I thought the forum standard was that the title of the piece is the title of the thread.

Anyway, a little bit of the harp part is not playable, and it is underused in any event.I scanned the rest of the score and no other mistakes popped out at me. The notation will need a major overhaul if this intended for musicians.

5 minutes ago, Mister Red said:

"Grande Valse for orchestra" = partly french, partly english, but never mind, I guess that's not the title. I was wondering why not "pour Orchestre." I thought the forum standard was that the title of the piece is the title of the thread.

Anyway, a little bit of the harp part is not playable, and it is underused in any event.I scanned the rest of the score and no other mistakes popped out at me. The notation will need a major overhaul if this intended for musicians.

 

Oh, you were talking about the title of his post... my apologies. As far as I know, there isn't a forum standard here. You can title your posts whatever you want, bearing in mind that if it's in a language most folks don't understand, it probably won't get many views (that's my guess as to why he didn't title his post "Grande valse pour Orchestre").

Welcome to the forum, by the way!

@Theodore Servin, thank you for your words, that's the kind of comment that encourages composers to keep on composing !

@Sojar Voglar You're absolutely right, on other websites, composers told me that this was a Strauss-like waltz, but my main inspiration for this composition was indeed Tchaikovsky. 

@Mister Red, as far as the title of the topic is concerned, this is something that doesn't represent the real title of the work. This waltz is entitled, as @Tónskáld said, "Grande Valse de Printemps". When it comes to the harp, what parts are unplayable and why does this work need an overhaul ?

16 minutes ago, Camfrtt said:

@Mister Red, When it comes to the harp, what parts are unplayable and why does this work need an overhaul ?

Yes, I understand about the title now. I thought people were putting the title of the piece as the thread title. My mistake.

Your questions:

The first four-note grouping of the harp arpeggios.

I only said that if this this work is eventually intended for musicians, the notation will need an overhaul.

@Mister Red 

No problem ! 😊 

I thought that run was doable, thanks for pointing this out, I’ll change it as soon as possible.

Did you notice big notation mistakes ? I wish this work were intended for real musicians but as a young composer, I don’t have an orchestra that can actually perform this piece for me... Maybe one day though, it will be played 

Besides these errors, I hope you liked this work. Touching people with my music is my main goal!

But someday you may have musicians playing your music, so as you go along, just increase your ability to notate so you're ready when the time comes.

Of course I liked the piece. Has a good waltz charm to it.

Make sure all of your musicians have something interesting to do, and also make sure they don't have to sit out for too large a proportion of the piece.

Regarding the harp arps:

Harpists are supposed to be able to reach a 10th between finger 1 and 4, so that's your limit for block chords. If the chord is going to be rolled, you can ask for up to a 12th on the occasional big chord, but a 10th is still a good regular limit.

Your first 4-note group spans two octaves. The only way to play that at this speed is with both hands, which could be done here in isolation. But since it's quickly followed by another four-note group, the note pacing is too fast for the left hand to then reach over the right hand to play the second four-note group. This type of written-out arp for both hands is idiomatic for harp, but at  this note pacing each four-note group needs to be played by one hand, with the hands alternating for each group, which is the usual routine anyway. The problem is easily fixed by putting a 16th rest in place of the D1. BTW, the phrase mark is unnecessary.

8 hours ago, Mister Red said:

But someday you may have musicians playing your music, so as you go along, just increase your ability to notate so you're ready when the time comes.

Of course I liked the piece. Has a good waltz charm to it.

Make sure all of your musicians have something interesting to do, and also make sure they don't have to sit out for too large a proportion of the piece.

Regarding the harp arps:

Harpists are supposed to be able to reach a 10th between finger 1 and 4, so that's your limit for block chords. If the chord is going to be rolled, you can ask for up to a 12th on the occasional big chord, but a 10th is still a good regular limit.

Your first 4-note group spans two octaves. The only way to play that at this speed is with both hands, which could be done here in isolation. But since it's quickly followed by another four-note group, the note pacing is too fast for the left hand to then reach over the right hand to play the second four-note group. This type of written-out arp for both hands is idiomatic for harp, but at  this note pacing each four-note group needs to be played by one hand, with the hands alternating for each group, which is the usual routine anyway. The problem is easily fixed by putting a 16th rest in place of the D1. BTW, the phrase mark is unnecessary.

 

Thanks for these helpful advice then !

Extremely pleasant to listen to, and indeed, in a Tchaikovsky-like style.

Well done again, Camfrtt !

Very catchy, very Tchaikovsky-ish. The piece loses its charm a bit in the B/trio section (around measure 131). I agree with @maestrowick about adding a counter melody there (probably would work best with a cello/horn combo). Overall, pretty good though.

In terms of orchestration, you need to better use the 2nd player of each group (ex. flute 2, oboe 2, etc.). The 2nd violin part could benefit from doubling down an octave in same places, like measure 38. In measure 62 (and whenever that reappears), the wind figures will most definitely by drowned out by the strings. This should be reinforced by the clarinets and bassoons...maybe the harp. Side note: most orchestras will only have one piccolo player doubling flute 3...something to keep in mind. The horn parts could use some love, they'll definitely be bored out of their minds. I personally would've added another trombone and tuba to reinforce the bass notes...but that's just me.

this is incredible