Symphony attempt.

6 minutes ago, Ivan1791 said:

What works am I copying? I got inspiration from Mozart's Jupiter and Beethovens Eroica, but I don't think I'm copying that much.

Anyway it doesn't matter because now that I have heard what I created I'm simply ashamed of it. My biggest failure by far. I will just try to forget I ever composed that piece of rubbish, I knew I did some mistakes but the reality was too bad honestly and I got really annoyed with myself.

 

There are no mistakes in music, that's very subjective,  it really depends on what you intend to do and I don't see any mistakes here.

Technically this is a good piece, but it's not your style, it's mozart/beethoven style and they have already perfected it. I like when people write in their own style, it's always fun and interesting and so if you have other music that is more of your style, please share I would absolutely love to hear, even if you think it's not "perfect". 

And It's just my opinion and I am no expert. if you don't agree just scroll and ignore this forum, don't take it personally.

11 minutes ago, antimusicale said:

 

There are no mistakes in music, that's very subjective,  it really depends on what you intend to do and I don't see any mistakes here.

Technically this is a good piece, but it's not your style, it's mozart/beethoven style and they have already perfected it. I like when people write in their own style, it's always fun and interesting and so if you have other music that is more of your style, please share I would absolutely love to hear, even if you think it's not "perfect". 

And It's just my opinion and I am no expert. if you don't agree just scroll and ignore this forum, don't take it personally.

 

 

Well, there are a ton. You can compare it with the revised version, but it is sucks. (The oboe sounds really bad and the woodwinds aren't loud enough for some reason.

I don't have a personal style I'm still learning. You can check my channel and there you will see all my works. I also have two posts of my piano and chamber music.

On 5/17/2020 at 12:32 AM, Ivan1791 said:

Good point. I did this piece with a very classical mindset. As you can see the horns and trumpets are playing notes of the harmonic series (or close to them). But if in the future I try to make another symphony I will probably use a more modern orchestration, but not much bigger because I still need to learn the basics of orchestration.

 

I still would change it.  It would be VERY frustrating for a french hornist to read this and the part is in concert. Matter of fact, the conductor might make you change, if not the librarian.  Although I respect why you did it, it's not a practice to do.  Old terminologies? yes.  Putting instruments in quixotical transpositions = major no-no!  Additionally, 1) you should put rehearsal numbers in your piece. 

2) Mark your score Violin 1 and Violin 2; or if you like as I do, Violin I and Violin II.

3.) At Measure 51, mark "divisi" in your score unless you want the double-stops

15 hours ago, Ivan1791 said:

Oh okay, although in this symphony I thought it would be okay to give that choice to the musicians that play the symphony. (I doubt it will ever be played by a real orchestra haha.) But you are right, I will use that next time if I feel like it is necessary. 

 

You never know when it will get played! We as composers have to always be ready! 🙂   Plus, the conductor needs to know what the composer's intent. Remember perfect practice makes perfect.  Do the right thing now so when the opportunity arises, one is ready! 

Catchy composition.

Hi, nice work (although I'm not very fond of the style). The main concert is the lack of (more counterpoint), as can be heard from m. 110 to 132 or so.

Maybe set it aside for a month or two. Get on with new pieces then when you revisit this you'll probably make a few changes. It's a way of "standing back" to see/hear the work through fresh ears.

We could all pick holes in the scoring but such crits relate to our own styles. You are your style in development and it's up to you to develop an ear for how well a work meets your aims. Developing a self-critical ear is vital so you can experiment. Even small nuances, an adjustment to a dynamic, a slight increase in a sustained note can make a big difference.

(quote)Well, there are a ton. You can compare it with the revised version, but it is sucks. (The oboe sounds really bad and the woodwinds aren't loud enough for some reason.(end quote)

And here, you see, you're wrestling with software, not the music. If you were working in a daw midi editor with a good sample library you'd have precise control over every note. You have to control not just what note is played but HOW it is played. Presumably you aren't in a position to change that immediately so we have to try to hear through the software limitations. Using a daw should definitely be on your horizon, though.

It's obviously worth considering all technical comments here - you can take them on; disregard them; or see if they give you ideas for things even better. Don't be afraid to experiment until you get the sound you want. Get the harmony put right if you think someone has spotted an error.

But no, it does NOT suck. It's a great effort and a worthy realisation. The harmony progresses smoothly. The development is thoroughly engaging; the tunes are good and stylistically consistent. It may need revision - a little touch up here and there but give it time to brew up!

It's a success....Very few people here can put together a formal work of this length let alone early in their development. You'll always be fighting your software....the solo entries weakened by being too quiet against the accompaniment; reiterated notes that barely sound separated (particularly in the strings where they'd be light and distinguishable played spiccato by live players). Some very good stuff has been buried by the software itself. Whether you can get around this or not, I can't know. But you definitely have the potential to justify investment in a decent daw and sample libraries. They may seem expensive but you'll be set forever! This piece would be note-wise the same but sound very different put through a daw.

. 

3 hours ago, maestrowick said:

 

I still would change it.  It would be VERY frustrating for a french hornist to read this and the part is in concert. Matter of fact, the conductor might make you change, if not the librarian.  Although I respect why you did it, it's not a practice to do.  Old terminologies? yes.  Putting instruments in quixotical transpositions = major no-no!  Additionally, 1) you should put rehearsal numbers in your piece. 

2) Mark your score Violin 1 and Violin 2; or if you like as I do, Violin I and Violin II.

3.) At Measure 51, mark "divisi" in your score unless you want the double-stops

You never know when it will get played! We as composers have to always be ready! 🙂   Plus, the conductor needs to know what the composer's intent. Remember perfect practice makes perfect.  Do the right thing now so when the opportunity arises, one is ready! 

Catchy composition.

 

 

The horn player would bothered because the notes it plays are too high? Also I don't know what you mean with quixotical positions? 

Also I will put better instructions next time but I don't want this first try to be played by real musicians ever, I hated the final result.

3 hours ago, Luis Hernández said:

Hi, nice work (although I'm not very fond of the style). The main concert is the lack of (more counterpoint), as can be heard from m. 110 to 132 or so.

 

Yes, I could have add more, but I didn't know well where and how. 

2 hours ago, Quinn said:

Maybe set it aside for a month or two. Get on with new pieces then when you revisit this you'll probably make a few changes. It's a way of "standing back" to see/hear the work through fresh ears.

We could all pick holes in the scoring but such crits relate to our own styles. You are your style in development and it's up to you to develop an ear for how well a work meets your aims. Developing a self-critical ear is vital so you can experiment. Even small nuances, an adjustment to a dynamic, a slight increase in a sustained note can make a big difference.

(quote)Well, there are a ton. You can compare it with the revised version, but it is sucks. (The oboe sounds really bad and the woodwinds aren't loud enough for some reason.(end quote)

And here, you see, you're wrestling with software, not the music. If you were working in a daw midi editor with a good sample library you'd have precise control over every note. You have to control not just what note is played but HOW it is played. Presumably you aren't in a position to change that immediately so we have to try to hear through the software limitations. Using a daw should definitely be on your horizon, though.

It's obviously worth considering all technical comments here - you can take them on; disregard them; or see if they give you ideas for things even better. Don't be afraid to experiment until you get the sound you want. Get the harmony put right if you think someone has spotted an error.

But no, it does NOT suck. It's a great effort and a worthy realisation. The harmony progresses smoothly. The development is thoroughly engaging; the tunes are good and stylistically consistent. It may need revision - a little touch up here and there but give it time to brew up!

It's a success....Very few people here can put together a formal work of this length let alone early in their development. You'll always be fighting your software....the solo entries weakened by being too quiet against the accompaniment; reiterated notes that barely sound separated (particularly in the strings where they'd be light and distinguishable played spiccato by live players). Some very good stuff has been buried by the software itself. Whether you can get around this or not, I can't know. But you definitely have the potential to justify investment in a decent daw and sample libraries. They may seem expensive but you'll be set forever! This piece would be note-wise the same but sound very different put through a daw.

. 

 

Well, thank you a lot for the comment. 

I really have no idea of how to see my own work, I tend to hate it right after I finish the work because I'm very demanding with myself. I also could have a distorted view on some of my music, I don't know. 

A friend of mine also told me to change libraries and find something better, I did it yesterday and that's why the revised version sounds different. I will still keep seeking for the best option for me because it still sounds bad to me. 

I will try to see if I dislike less my orchestral piece in around a month. 

7 hours ago, Ivan1791 said:

Well, thank you a lot for the comment. 

I really have no idea of how to see my own work, I tend to hate it right after I finish the work because I'm very demanding with myself. I also could have a distorted view on some of my music, I don't know. 

 

A friend of mine also told me to change libraries and find something better, I did it yesterday and that's why the revised version sounds different. I will still keep seeking for the best option for me because it still sounds bad to me. 

 

I will try to see if I dislike less my orchestral piece in around a month. 

 

It's probable that most of us are dissatisfied with some of our work some of the time but we have to move forward. Most of us "get better" as we do unless we're stuck in a rut.

It may not always seem that way but in small ways each new work is new experience building on what we've already done. It took Beethoven roughly 30 years to get from his first symphony to his ninth and we see massive development throughout. Who would have thought that Beethoven's last String Quartet (Op 135) came from the same composer as Für Elise?

I still recommend you look for a daw. Have a look at Reaper. For small businesses and lone composers it's very reasonably priced and has an excellent midi editor....not so good at producing a notation view though.

So...well, try to be positive. You have every reason to be. If you've decided you're going to hate all you compose you'll hit problems sooner or later, be discouraged from experimenting and developing your own voice. The good: you completed this movement; good: you've acquired much knowledge and skill. You can be optimistic about starting a new work and view any struggles as strengths as you overcome them. 

Most of us, I bet, get frustrated when things don't seem to go right. And I, for a start don't like about half the stuff in my 'catalogue'. I haven't thrown it in the musical recycle bin in case I ever have time to see if anything can be rescued from it. I've become a cut-and-paste, split-and-splice merchant to be sure.

But then, there's always something about which I can feel some satisfaction - and that urges me on. I hope it's the same for you.

.

I had a look at the Horn parts myself and you'd be perfectly ok with a "period orchestra" that would have crooks in both Cs. It would be tiring for a player with an F/Bflat horn but it could be done with a triple horn: F/Bflat/high F, the sort that horn players specialising in Handel-type music use. It's useful to visualise (or on a separate piece of paper) what the transposition for an F horn would look like. It'll give you some idea of what you're expecting. Prolonged playing at or above high G (transposed) would be very tiring. But as I say, on a triple horn these things are possible. 

22 minutes ago, Quinn said:

It's probable that most of us are dissatisfied with some of our work some of the time but we have to move forward. Most of us "get better" as we do unless we're stuck in a rut.

It may not always seem that way but in small ways each new work is new experience building on what we've already done. It took Beethoven roughly 30 years to get from his first symphony to his ninth and we see massive development throughout. Who would have thought that Beethoven's last String Quartet (Op 135) came from the same composer as Für Elise?

So...well, try to be positive. You have every reason to be. If you've decided you're going to hate all you compose you'll hit problems sooner or later, be discouraged from experimenting and developing your own voice. The good: you completed this movement; good: you've acquired much knowledge and skill. You can be optimistic about starting a new work and view any struggles as strengths as you overcome them. 

Most of us, I bet, get frustrated when things don't seem to go right. And I, for a start don't like about half the stuff in my 'catalogue'. I haven't thrown it in the musical recycle bin in case I ever have time to see if anything can be rescued from it. I've become a cut-and-paste, split-and-splice merchant to be sure.

But then, there's always something about which I can feel some satisfaction - and that urges me on. I hope it's the same for you.

.

 

 

 

I usually like more my older works than my recent ones, it is quite common in me. I also used to leave a lot of works unfinished, but for some reason a day I got motivation and since then I always try to complete my works and try to improve. 

Being honest although it is a very unrealistic desire my dream is to make people in general enjoy classical music once more, like, everyone. I want to create works with a real purpose (right now the purpose of my compositions are to improve and express some of my emotions).

(By the way, great comment.)

7 minutes ago, Quinn said:

I had a look at the Horn parts myself and you'd be perfectly ok with a "period orchestra" that would have crooks in both Cs. It would be tiring for a player with an F/Bflat horn but it could be done with a triple horn: F/Bflat/high F, the sort that horn players specialising in Handel-type music use. It's useful to visualise (or on a separate piece of paper) what the transposition for an F horn would look like. It'll give you some idea of what you're expecting. Prolonged playing at high G (written/transposed) would be very tiring. But as I say, on a triple horn these things are possible. 

 

Exactly, I composed that having in mind the kind of trumpets and horns Mozart would have used for for example his Linz symphony in C major. 

I really , really, really liked this movement (proably is one of the small cases that I listen to all the pice in one take). I have not much knowlage of music theory or orchestration but to me it sounded great. It does sound like a piece of a late Mozart or early Beethoven but I see no problem in that (if fact I would see it rather as a compliment) as in art I feel you do not need to be always innovative.

“Good artists borrow, great artists steal.”

- Pablo Picasso

“Lesser artists borrow, great artists steal.”

- Igor Stravinski

“Immature poets imitate; mature poets steal"

- T.S Eliot

6 hours ago, Hendrik Meniere said:

I really , really, really liked this movement (proably is one of the small cases that I listen to all the pice in one take). I have not much knowlage of music theory or orchestration but to me it sounded great. It does sound like a piece of a late Mozart or early Beethoven but I see no problem in that (if fact I would see it rather as a compliment) as in art I feel you do not need to be always innovative.

“Good artists borrow, great artists steal.”

- Pablo Picasso

“Lesser artists borrow, great artists steal.”

- Igor Stravinski

“Immature poets imitate; mature poets steal"

- T.S Eliot

 

 

Well, thank you for listening to it.

On 5/18/2020 at 10:10 PM, Quinn said:

It's probable that most of us are dissatisfied with some of our work some of the time but we have to move forward. Most of us "get better" as we do unless we're stuck in a rut.

It may not always seem that way but in small ways each new work is new experience building on what we've already done. It took Beethoven roughly 30 years to get from his first symphony to his ninth and we see massive development throughout. Who would have thought that Beethoven's last String Quartet (Op 135) came from the same composer as Für Elise?

I still recommend you look for a daw. Have a look at Reaper. For small businesses and lone composers it's very reasonably priced and has an excellent midi editor....not so good at producing a notation view though.

So...well, try to be positive. You have every reason to be. If you've decided you're going to hate all you compose you'll hit problems sooner or later, be discouraged from experimenting and developing your own voice. The good: you completed this movement; good: you've acquired much knowledge and skill. You can be optimistic about starting a new work and view any struggles as strengths as you overcome them. 

Most of us, I bet, get frustrated when things don't seem to go right. And I, for a start don't like about half the stuff in my 'catalogue'. I haven't thrown it in the musical recycle bin in case I ever have time to see if anything can be rescued from it. I've become a cut-and-paste, split-and-splice merchant to be sure.

But then, there's always something about which I can feel some satisfaction - and that urges me on. I hope it's the same for you.

.

 

 

 

At the end I even posted an animated version haha.

Very well done! Your symphony is clearly inspired by the classical era, and does a really good job fitting into that idiom, while adding a few touches that give it a more contemporary flair. I especially liked hearing how you built your melodies out of catchy and recognizable motives and developed those motives throughout the piece.

A few questions: I was curious why you decided to switch the melody to a triplet figure in the violins starting at m.31? Is this melody derived from a motive I'm not recognizing? It seems a little unexpected and contrasts strongly with the quarter notes we just heard in the woodwinds. Don't get me wrong, I like the idea, but I think the transition could be prepared a little better. The first time I heard it, it sounded like the tempo suddenly slowed down because every other instrument is playing held notes. If, for example, you had the basses playing pizzicato on beats 1 and 3 throughout this section it might help keep the listener grounded and avoid feeling a change in tempo as I did. 

I was also curious why you decided to have a brief Andante section in your development. Not that there is anything wrong with it, just wanted to understand why you made that decision. Did you try this section in the same tempo and think that it needed to be slower?

I also really liked the fugue starting at m. 118 that leads back into the Recapitulation. I thought it did a really good job building anticipation for the triumphant return of the main theme. 

As a former horn player... yeah that would be a really hard Horn part, spending that much time in the upper register. As a rule of thumb the comfortable range for horn (in concert pitch) extends up to about the C on the third space from the bottom on the treble clef, and is playable up to about F on the top line of the treble clef. I think I spotted a G above the top line of the treble clef - I would not have been able to play that consistently. But then again I only played in high school. I never played a triple horn, so I couldn't speak to how hard it would be on that. As far as it being written in C, it's not that big of a deal. I would probably wonder why a contemporary composer wrote for horn in C, but I'd get over it. I'm used to transposing anyway. Given the idiom you are writing in, I think it's fine, so do whatever makes you happy.

Thanks for sharing, I'm looking forward to hearing more!

23 hours ago, gmm said:

Very well done! Your symphony is clearly inspired by the classical era, and does a really good job fitting into that idiom, while adding a few touches that give it a more contemporary flair. I especially liked hearing how you built your melodies out of catchy and recognizable motives and developed those motives throughout the piece.

A few questions: I was curious why you decided to switch the melody to a triplet figure in the violins starting at m.31? Is this melody derived from a motive I'm not recognizing? It seems a little unexpected and contrasts strongly with the quarter notes we just heard in the woodwinds. Don't get me wrong, I like the idea, but I think the transition could be prepared a little better. The first time I heard it, it sounded like the tempo suddenly slowed down because every other instrument is playing held notes. If, for example, you had the basses playing pizzicato on beats 1 and 3 throughout this section it might help keep the listener grounded and avoid feeling a change in tempo as I did. 

I was also curious why you decided to have a brief Andante section in your development. Not that there is anything wrong with it, just wanted to understand why you made that decision. Did you try this section in the same tempo and think that it needed to be slower?

I also really liked the fugue starting at m. 118 that leads back into the Recapitulation. I thought it did a really good job building anticipation for the triumphant return of the main theme. 

As a former horn player... yeah that would be a really hard Horn part, spending that much time in the upper register. As a rule of thumb the comfortable range for horn (in concert pitch) extends up to about the C on the third space from the bottom on the treble clef, and is playable up to about F on the top line of the treble clef. I think I spotted a G above the top line of the treble clef - I would not have been able to play that consistently. But then again I only played in high school. I never played a triple horn, so I couldn't speak to how hard it would be on that. As far as it being written in C, it's not that big of a deal. I would probably wonder why a contemporary composer wrote for horn in C, but I'd get over it. I'm used to transposing anyway. Given the idiom you are writing in, I think it's fine, so do whatever makes you happy.

Thanks for sharing, I'm looking forward to hearing more!

 

Thank you a lot for your comment, I appreciate the feedback.

I switch the melody to triplets as a way of repeating the second theme without using the same exact melody. Your idea of using other instruments as a rhythmical guidance (I didn't know how to say it haha) is really good, I never thought about it but I will take it into account. 

I composed a slow section because I wanted the piece to have some kind of tempo contrast and use it as a deep low point. Like, the developement travels to de deeps of the music and then returns in an epic way with the counterpoint part. I also was feeling quite depressed while doing it and I wanted to portray my apathy and I thought it could work.

Glad you liked the counterpoint. 

And yes, I didn't know a lot about horns when I composed this, so what I created isn't very accessible for todays musicians. I wanted to use a horn that had more or less the same range as the trumpet in C, but it seems that isn't a thing. Anyway for next time I will compose thinking in terms of modern instruments instead of natural trumpets and all that old stuff. 

5 minutes ago, Ivan1791 said:

I composed a slow section because I wanted the piece to have some kind of tempo contrast and use it as a deep low point. Like, the developement travels to de deeps of the music and then returns in an epic way with the counterpoint part. I also was feeling quite depressed while doing it and I wanted to portray my apathy and I thought it could work.

On a second listen with this in mind, this makes sense. I also think the big minor chord before it sets up the slow section very well, and the contrast in the dynamics makes it feel very dramatic. Nice work!

8 minutes ago, Ivan1791 said:

And yes, I didn't know a lot about horns when I composed this, so what I created isn't very accessible for todays musicians. I wanted to use a horn that had more or less the same range as the trumpet in C, but it seems that isn't a thing. Anyway for next time I will compose thinking in terms of modern instruments instead of natural trumpets and all that old stuff. 

Hey, if you like writing in this style I say go for it. I don't believe in the idea that just because Mozart and Beethoven may be the "masters" of this style that we shouldn't continue to practice it. If it's a valuable art for, it should be kept alive.

3 minutes ago, gmm said:

On a second listen with this in mind, this makes sense. I also think the big minor chord before it sets up the slow section very well, and the contrast in the dynamics makes it feel very dramatic. Nice work!

Hey, if you like writing in this style I say go for it. I don't believe in the idea that just because Mozart and Beethoven may be the "masters" of this style that we shouldn't continue to practice it. If it's a valuable art for, it should be kept alive.

 

I'm glad to see you liked the piece. I usually dislike most of my compositions.

And I will try to use more modern orchestral settings just in case I can get one of my compositions played by a real group of people. I might compose other works with the old orquestral setting but for now I think it's better for me to get used to the kind of instruments used nowadays and how to fully exploit their potential. Because if I get a job composing I will almost for sure use a modern orquestra. 

On 5/17/2020 at 7:45 PM, Ivan1791 said:

What works am I copying? I got inspiration from Mozart's Jupiter and Beethovens Eroica, but I don't think I'm copying that much.

Anyway it doesn't matter because now that I have heard what I created I'm simply ashamed of it. My biggest failure by far. I will just try to forget I ever composed that piece of rubbish, I knew I did some mistakes but the reality was too bad honestly and I got really annoyed with myself.

 

Hold up. Don't mistake the criticisms here for bashing your voice as a composer. If people hear a similarity between something else and your music, meh who cares. I definitely heard some unique sections, especially with transitions and the development section. Yeah, maybe I hear a lot of Mozart and Beethoven influences, but what better way to learn then to emulate other musicians. Hell, you even picked two of the greatest composers who ever lived to model your symphony from. Just because this particular piece rendered a lack of "OMG bro so sick yer a genius!!1!1" replies doesn't mean it's a failure. It would be a failure if you wrote this, were too afraid to post it, and received no constructive feedback from listeners who took the time to let you know a piece of their mind, no matter how detailed or blunt. 

I hate to see that you posted in the shoutbox that your teachers told you your music was "bad". You're a student of music, it's evident from your wonderful display of marksmanship regarding clean score writing as well as your talent for KNOWING compositional techniques to develop your ideas (which anyone can create) rather than spew a bunch of looped chord progressions littered with obvious crtl+c markings throughout your peace. I've been teaching music lessons for a bit now, and anyone who has shown what you have with this glimpse of who you are as a composer would receive nothing but CONSTRUCTIVE criticism from me, no matter what I think of the unique/pastiche relationship of the music.

That said, Beethoven will I think always be my favorite composer of all time. I have so much respect for him as I piece together all the little intricacies in his piano sonatas as I begrudgingly plow my way through them as if I were a child fisting the keyboard. I'll never have the stamina and pure intellect he had as a machine of a composer and pianist. But even though I admire him so much, I encourage you to make your brain a sponge and soak in everything that happened after Bach, Beethoven, and Mozart. I could go on and on about composers I never listen to but took something from the times when I gave their music an open-minded chance. I won't bore you with that, but I bring that up because I took SO MUCH from Beethoven and Mozart (not so much Bach 😄), that I could use those ideas and phrases and foundations and general discipline in composing in the modern world I'm a part of. What can you do with what you learned from them and apply it to this day, August 1st, 2020? Once you address this, you'll find the comments of "sounds like Mozart" will fade away and people will wonder what you're doing...then you can tell them about Mozart!

P.S. please let me know about your endeavors with creating a graphic score. I'm working on something and about to finish, I would LOVE to hear how it's done!

All in all, sorry for the ramble. I think this piece is well deserved of a bit more attention, as anything for orchestra requires a ton of meticulous work. This is a fine display of your talents as a composer, I'm very eager to hear what you have for us next. It sounds like you've been going through a lot, I only hope your distress manifests into your greatest work yet.

12 minutes ago, Thatguy v2.0 said:

Hold up. Don't mistake the criticisms here for bashing your voice as a composer. If people hear a similarity between something else and your music, meh who cares. I definitely heard some unique sections, especially with transitions and the development section. Yeah, maybe I hear a lot of Mozart and Beethoven influences, but what better way to learn then to emulate other musicians. Hell, you even picked two of the greatest composers who ever lived to model your symphony from. Just because this particular piece rendered a lack of "OMG bro so sick yer a genius!!1!1" replies doesn't mean it's a failure. It would be a failure if you wrote this, were too afraid to post it, and received no constructive feedback from listeners who took the time to let you know a piece of their mind, no matter how detailed or blunt. 

I hate to see that you posted in the shoutbox that your teachers told you your music was "bad". You're a student of music, it's evident from your wonderful display of marksmanship regarding clean score writing as well as your talent for KNOWING compositional techniques to develop your ideas (which anyone can create) rather than spew a bunch of looped chord progressions littered with obvious crtl+c markings throughout your peace. I've been teaching music lessons for a bit now, and anyone who has shown what you have with this glimpse of who you are as a composer would receive nothing but CONSTRUCTIVE criticism from me, no matter what I think of the unique/pastiche relationship of the music.

That said, Beethoven will I think always be my favorite composer of all time. I have so much respect for him as I piece together all the little intricacies in his piano sonatas as I begrudgingly plow my way through them as if I were a child fisting the keyboard. I'll never have the stamina and pure intellect he had as a machine of a composer and pianist. But even though I admire him so much, I encourage you to make your brain a sponge and soak in everything that happened after Bach, Beethoven, and Mozart. I could go on and on about composers I never listen to but took something from the times when I gave their music an open-minded chance. I won't bore you with that, but I bring that up because I took SO MUCH from Beethoven and Mozart (not so much Bach 😄), that I could use those ideas and phrases and foundations and general discipline in composing in the modern world I'm a part of. What can you do with what you learned from them and apply it to this day, August 1st, 2020? Once you address this, you'll find the comments of "sounds like Mozart" will fade away and people will wonder what you're doing...then you can tell them about Mozart!

P.S. please let me know about your endeavors with creating a graphic score. I'm working on something and about to finish, I would LOVE to hear how it's done!

All in all, sorry for the ramble. I think this piece is well deserved of a bit more attention, as anything for orchestra requires a ton of meticulous work. This is a fine display of your talents as a composer, I'm very eager to hear what you have for us next. It sounds like you've been going through a lot, I only hope your distress manifests into your greatest work yet.

 

 

 

Thank you for the comment. My favourite composers are Bach, Beethoven and Mozart too, I really admire how much beautiful music Beethoven composed even when he had a harsh life.

Right now I'm not composing anything, I'm too depressed right now. I always use Musescore3, I don't know if I understood you well there, sorry.

Thanks, right now I don't dislike my orchestral work as much as I did after I completed it, but a bunch of important guys more or less saying my works were bad made me feel like if I was nothing. 

If you are curious about it this is the kind of music they make. (Don't tell him anything about me, I don't want problems with them.)

So...here's the thing. I got to a point in my musical education to where I was studying the likes of "Plastic Trio". The musical language became so far detached to what I PERSONALLY was looking for in music, that I felt like I had wasted my time learning so much from the evolution of music in the high art realms . Don't worry, you can take from that piece you posted as a virtuous plethora of techniques to learn from, but ultimately who can you communicate that particular musical language with? I get the bountiful showmanship of compositional technique, but to me the "effect" that language conveys is nothing more than a prolonged attempt at novelty. I know plenty would disagree in the conservatory, but I've learned a hell of a lot more from blues, jazz, electronic, rock, pop, gospel, and whatever else is beyond the walls of the academic sectors then schoenberg and john cage taught me. Their stuff is worth studying, don't get me wrong, but take what you want from it. 

All I'm saying is don't let a very small percentage of educated music teachers sway your will to give this world what you have burning inside to share. Frank Zappa got the same amount of pleasure from his twirky pop music that he did from hiring the London Symphony Orchestra to pollute the world with a cacophonous barrage of "sounds" (jk I love it 😄).

3 minutes ago, Thatguy v2.0 said:

So...here's the thing. I got to a point in my musical education to where I was studying the likes of "Plastic Trio". The musical language became so far detached to what I PERSONALLY was looking for in music, that I felt like I had wasted my time learning so much from the evolution of music in the high art realms . Don't worry, you can take from that piece you posted as a virtuous plethora of techniques to learn from, but ultimately who can you communicate that particular musical language with? I get the bountiful showmanship of compositional technique, but to me the "effect" that language conveys is nothing more than a prolonged attempt at novelty. I know plenty would disagree in the conservatory, but I've learned a hell of a lot more from blues, jazz, electronic, rock, pop, gospel, and whatever else is beyond the walls of the academic sectors then schoenberg and john cage taught me. Their stuff is worth studying, don't get me wrong, but take what you want from it. 

All I'm saying is don't let a very small percentage of educated music teachers sway your will to give this world what you have burning inside to share. Frank Zappa got the same amount of pleasure from his twirky pop music that he did from hiring the London Symphony Orchestra to pollute the world with a cacophonous barrage of "sounds" (jk I love it 😄).

 

Thank you for the cheering.

I wish I could find a good teacher with more or less similar taste.

I think I wold have had quite a lot of arguing with my teacher if he only wanted me to compose modern music. 

Ask yourself what modern music is, then ask everyone you know. I bet a small handful agree it's mental masturbation in a conservatory. The composers you love had an impact on society, they communicated their message to the masses, to where their message was simple to understand but complex in musicality and MODERNNESS for their day .They had magnanimous personalities, whether it was subtle and timid or bold and brash. Your growth as a composer will come with not only your knowledge of music, but your awareness of what type of mark you choose to leave in this world. 

18 minutes ago, Ivan1791 said:

Thanks, right now I don't dislike my orchestral work as much as I did after I completed it, but a bunch of important guys more or less saying my works were bad made me feel like if I was nothing. 

What exactly does "important" mean? Some local teachers or composers or something? If all these guys do is dump on your music it sounds like you need to hang out with different people.

You sound like a pretty young guy so here's some advice from a guy whose (a few) years older than you: if you spend time around people who ultimately just drag you down, you need to cut those people out of your life. You shouldn't waste any time trying to impress people who would rather tear you down than build you up. It may be hard, because you may think these people are your friends, but I promise there are better people out there. I wish I had learned that a lot sooner than I did.

FWIW here's my reaction to Ivan's music:

And here's my reaction to that "Plastic Trio":

31 minutes ago, Ivan1791 said:

Right now I'm not composing anything, I'm too depressed right now.

Sounds like you've had it pretty rough lately. Take some time for yourself, you'll be back stronger than ever before you know it.