To The Farthest Seas (Concert Band)

Hello all! Here's a relatively short piece for concert band that I wrote over the past month or so, inspired by the idea of a wondrous sea voyage to distant lands. 

I am hoping to submit this to a concert band composition competition by the end of the month, so I'm hoping for a bit of feedback if possible. It's not an ensemble that I typically compose for, so I'm a little bit "in the woods" here. Let me know what you think -- good or bad! Thanks for listening 😁

EDIT:  I should note that one of the main ideas I try to get across in the piece is the shifting sense of rhythms (3 over 4, 4 over 3, etc.) reflecting the swaying, unpredictable movements of the sea. 

I can see this in a 'high seas' context for sure.  If you sped it up it would almost sound like an old sea shanty or jig.  I like your use of low brass in the beginning - sounds like a euphonium.  The tuttis with the bass drum and snare drum march-like rhythms really sounds martial and fitting to your context.  I like how you use the piano here - exactly how a piano part should be scored in the context of a large ensemble like this.  The rising and falling winds give one the feeling of the rising and falling waves.  The only thing that I miss is a section at a faster tempo.  Overall a great piece!

@PaperComposer - Thanks! To be honest, I hadn't even thought about adding an up-tempo section. Now I'm wondering if there would be time do that before the deadline...

Thanks for listening and reviewing!!

Okay, I really love band music. This is really good.

The moving parts at m. 48 I think need to be rebeamed in triplets, but otherwise your score is solid.

This piece is very idiomatic for band as it is. I think it might be a bit of a cliché to add a fast section, and I think it might take from the organic nature of the music you've so far acheived. I was going to criticize that the piece seemed a little too "through-composed" for my liking, but a second listening revealed to me that I actually like the flow of your material, but what I want more of is organic orchestration. The first half of the score is better, but I think starting around page 10, it seems like you lose the balance between your theoretical idea and your ensemble, because the texture starts to get choppy. What I mean is eg. on page 14 the saxes/dbl reeds do something, then they stop and the high brass does something, then they stop and the low brass does something and this is more or less the pattern for the rest of the piece. I don't think this is "wrong" or anything, but if this is a competition piece, I think orchestrating this a little more elegantly will elevate the piece more than a fast section would. This is a water piece, and water doesn't behave discretely, I think you could let instruments' parts spill over and conflict with what interrupts it. I don't even think it would be that difficult for you with this piece; there is even an opportunity to elevate your 3 over 4 idea by letting an idea in 3 "spill over" into where your next idea is in 4 is one idea.

The cool thing about bands is they are ravenous for new music - so when writing for band is the perfect time to get creative with doubling and textures. 

Thanks for sharing.

2 hours ago, Mitchell said:

The first half of the score is better, but I think starting around page 10, it seems like you lose the balance between your theoretical idea and your ensemble, because the texture starts to get choppy. What I mean is eg. on page 14 the saxes/dbl reeds do something, then they stop and the high brass does something, then they stop and the low brass does something and this is more or less the pattern for the rest of the piece. I don't think this is "wrong" or anything, but if this is a competition piece, I think orchestrating this a little more elegantly will elevate the piece more than a fast section would. This is a water piece, and water doesn't behave discretely, I think you could let instruments' parts spill over and conflict with what interrupts it. I don't even think it would be that difficult for you with this piece; there is even an opportunity to elevate your 3 over 4 idea by letting an idea in 3 "spill over" into where your next idea is in 4 is one idea.

This is really great advice, and I think exactly what I needed to hear. The orchestration gets too "blocky" in this section, if you know what I mean. One block of the band plays, then another block plays, etc. You're absolutely right there. I will try to get creative and do some new doublings / add counterpoint (though I worry that there is a lot going on already, lol) to break it up a bit. 

Seriously very good of you to listen (twice!) and leave such detailed feedback. Thank you! I'm glad you liked it overall.

Really good work. I really like the way you blended the different colors of the ensemble. I've always shied away from writing for concert band because I've never been able to blend the vastly different voices very well, but you do a really good job here.

I also like the variety of different modes you use. I think what might take it to the next level would be to try to use some more daring chords within these modal contexts. For example, at the beginning it looks like you use C lydian dominant for the first phrase or so. A chord that sounds really cool (at least to me) in lydian dominant is the one below: 

As I try to play the opening melody over this, I don't know that I'm too crazy about this particular chord here, but what I'm trying to say is some more "exotic" chords might add some extra harmonic flavor to the modes that you use.

I like the way you used the piano to accentuate the harmony (arpeggios at m. 55) and to add color to melodic voices (m. 135 and m. 147) , but there are a couple spots that come across as a little "chamber music-ey" and I'm not sure if it was your intention - The chordal background in m.82 is an example. I also think the piano would not be heard over the high trumpets and snare/timpani rolls in m.73.

On 7/24/2020 at 1:02 PM, Noah Brode said:

EDIT:  I should note that one of the main ideas I try to get across in the piece is the shifting sense of rhythms (3 over 4, 4 over 3, etc.) reflecting the swaying, unpredictable movements of the sea. 

In general you do a good job of this (brass chords at m. 116 is a really cool example), but I think it's a little overt in the brass at m.139. These arpegiatted chords kind of come out of nowhere to me; maybe if you used an "in 4" version of one of your melodies it would be more effective.

Lastly, I felt a little overwhelmed by all of the cymbal crashes and bass drum hits at the end. Maybe if you cut these out in m.187-190 it would let the woodwinds play out a little more, and it would be more dramatic when they come back in with the brass.

Thanks for sharing, will it be performed as part of the competition? If show please share the recording!

Thanks for listening and reviewing @gmm , glad you liked it overall! 😁 I have done three band pieces now, so I feel like I'm finally getting the hang of it. (Kind of.)

You brought up some really good points. I actually went ahead and submitted it to the competition a few days early, so I can't go back and edit now, but I definitely will take a look at some of the stuff you mentioned after the competition is over. The overuse of bass drum and cymbal at the end is one I'm regretting now since you brought it up. 

As far as the piano goes, I think your criticism is fair. It was a bit of a balancing act between keeping the pianist involved while not relying too heavily on them throughout most of the piece. I actually think the phrase you mentioned at m. 82 is one of the weaker sections overall, and definitely weak for the piano. I just realized I needed to develop the second theme a bit more so it kind of got shoe-horned in there. 

Thanks again for listening and reviewing!

@Noah Brode Shoot, I wish had reviewed it sooner 😕 . Good luck, let us know how it goes!

@gmm No worries, thanks! Crossing my fingers 🙂

Hi Noah! 

I've listened to this piece and the Baron von Munchausen piece you linked me to. I have some ideas for you to consider.

First, the range of this piece is much better than the range of the Baron, though there are some spots where I think you should consider range issues in both pieces. Why is range so important here? Because range impacts band sound. It's the first thing that can make an otherwise great composition sound like a train wreck in live performance. So I'm going to give you some parameters to consider in revising your work for live performance. Here are the parameters I'll insist on, and you can go back and see where these should apply to both pieces. Also, I highly recommend you review these in a TRANSPOSED SCORE, not a Concert Pitch score. The reason is that transpositions often show you where the most comfortable range is for wind instruments. I'll be referring to TRANSPOSED SCORE ranges, not concert pitch. 

1. Flutes - Bottom Space F to F one octave above the staff (yes, Flutes can reach "super C" above that, but these parameters are for comfort of the players)

2. Piccolo - Middle staff line Bb to F one octave above the staff (yes, they can play lower and higher, but unless you know what you're doing, don't)

3. Oboe - Bottom Space F to Bb above the staff

4. Bassoon - Bb below the staff to F above the staff - all comfortable, very wide range

5. 1st Clarinet - G below the staff to C above the staff (anything above that C requires alternate fingerings some amateur players might not know)

6. 2nd Clarinet - G below the staff to G on top of the staff (less skilled players struggle with embouchure issues here)

7. 3rd Clarinet - G below the staff (they'll have to push the air for it, but they can do it) to G (they can reach it, though you may not want to tempt fate too much here)

8. Bass Clarinet - Low D one octave below the staff to second space A in the staff (if you go above this, it better be to feature a soloist)

9. 1st-2nd Alto Sax - Bottom space D up to D above the staff (all safe), though you can take your first alto to C# and C below the staff, as well as up to A above that high D if they're good.

10. Tenor Sax - Bottom space D up to G above the staff (yes, they can go lower and higher, but this is a comfortable range)

11. Bari Sax - C below the staff up to G above the staff (most Bari Saxes can go lower with extra keys, depending on how old the instrument is, but these notes are all available on every Bari.)

12. 1st Trumpet - G below the staff up to G on top of the staff (every first trumpet should have this range, guaranteed, A up to E above it is rare)

13. 2nd Trumpet - A below the staff up to top space E in the staff (I would avoid top space E as much as possible and stay under it)

14. 3rd Trumpet - C below the staff up to C in the staff (consider these are usually your newest, least experienced players in a band, so set them up for success since they pretty much have to know the concert Bb scale). 

15. Horn - C below the staff to top line F on the staff (again, you can take them up to G or A, especially if you set them up with a horn "rip" or something, but they'll nail F every time as a high note)

16. 1st Trombone - F below the staff to F above the staff (this is your strongest set of players, virtuosic players can reach the Bb above that high F)

17. 2nd Trombone - F below the staff to D above the staff (this is your weakest set of players)

18. 3rd Trombone - Bb below the staff to D above the staff (they're stronger than 2nd trombone players but I wouldn't tempt fate)

19. Euphonium - Bottom line Bb in the staff to Bb above the staff (all comfortable) and up to F above that for a good section

20. Tuba - F one octave below the staff to top line F in the staff (good players can reach the Bb on top of the staff, anything above that is virtuosic)

You'll find that a lot of your ranges for your 2nd and 3rd parts have a huge impact on the attainability of your pieces. Your horn parts in Baron are insane - no offense, they just are, and you need to spend a majority of your time on these. I have a good band with strong representation in every section, and they would harass me over the range issues in that piece if I programmed it.

I say this to prepare you for putting one of these pieces in front of a band. You want your players to look at their parts and not experience stress or concern about what is expected of them as players - especially volunteers who enjoy playing comfortably and are willing to occasionally exert the effort to reach pitches outside of their comfort level on rare occasions. Baron is too demanding in terms of range for most bands, and the band sound will suffer as a result, meaning it wouldn't be programmed by as many groups. 

There are moments where you stretch the range in this piece as well, though not nearly as egregiously as in Baron. The lesson here is that just because an orchestration book or website says an instrument can reach a particular pitch doesn't mean every performer on that instrument has the skillset to reach it. Some players will never reach a virtuosic level of performance on their instrument. Some players will never even achieve a full range of the instrument either. There is a degree of compromise here that, if you're smart about it, will make your music more attainable for your band. The first priority, before your enjoyment or that of the audience, is that of the performer. That's always going to be a very important consideration of the band director as well. 

As far as the compositions themselves, I thoroughly enjoyed both and appreciate the ideas you're using and developing. My one hangup is how often you cadence with a fermata or long tone between sections. There are even times when you begin to fluidly transition into a new section, THEN you cadence on a fermata or long tone, which disrupts the momentum of the piece and gives us this "stop and start" sensation. Maybe less fermata / long-tone breaks and more fluid transitioning from one section to the next would help. I hope my feedback helps you. Cheers! 

@AntiA Wow, thank you so much for the detailed feedback! I'm glad you liked the pieces overall, and I'm going to be very glad to tackle the edits that you've suggested about range. I need to make myself a chart with the ranges you've suggested. As far as difficulty goes – did the pieces seem reasonably playable as far as difficulty? (Outside of the range issues, I mean.) Thanks again, very much.

Sure, nothing you wrote is rhythmically or melodically unplayable if it’s written in an appropriate range. I think you should get Finale, Sibelius, or Dorico, and buy Note Performer. You’ll be amazed by the sound difference. Send this piece to me in .mus or xml format. I can produce a higher quality audio for you that will give you a better sense of what the final product could sound like.