Suite of Minimalism: Mvt. 1 - Groove in 5/8

Hi everyone! This is the first movement of my latest project (inspired by John Adams, Stravinsky, Steve Reich, Ravel, and a few others), Suite of Minimalism. I have been working on this movement for around two months now, and am extremely proud of it so far.  When the full suite is finished it will be quite the accomplishment!

For listeners, I wanted to ask a few questions from you:

- Favorite part?

- Things you dislike/things to fix?

- What do you imagine when listening to it?

- Can you hear the influence from the composers listed above?

Thanks everyone, and I hope you enjoy my piece 🙂!

To me this sounded like "Stravinsky on a short ride in a fast machine" 😄 

I loved this, especially in the later half. The ostinatos got a bit tiresome as it went on, so the little developments with the melody later on were very welcome. My qualms with minimalism are aesthetic, so I get the layers and layers building on top of each other, just not what I usually go for in my own music.

That said, I think you gave us a wonderful showcase with the command of the entire orchestera. I like a lot of the polyrhythmic ideas you deploy, and you blend the instruments very well. Awesome job here! I see you only have a few posts, my advice is to critique other's works for more feedback. 

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For listeners, I wanted to ask a few questions from you:

- Favorite part?

- Things you dislike/things to fix?

- What do you imagine when listening to it?

- Can you hear the influence from the composers listed above?

I do certainly hear the influence of the composers listed above minus maybe Ravel which I didn't hear in this piece.

I hear a very intricate and differentiated orchestral piece.  It reminds me a little of the turning of cogs in a giant clock.  I guess it reminds me of clockwork.

I don't think I can give you any advice on what to improve as you pretty much have a great ability with the orchestra.  I like the way you write for the piano as part of this ensemble.  The timpani part is also quite cool and I see you use all 5 timpani drums quite liberally and skillfully.

I like the whole piece not just any particular part.  I like how you still manage to have contrasting parts to this while continuing a somewhat trance-like pattern.  With that kind of pattern I know some of the minimalist composers have struggled to write adequate endings/finales but I like your ending in this piece.  It's short and to the point.  Thanks for the music!

I like it. It definitely has a minimalist vibe. You use a lot of really neat textures and effects, and you write well for the instruments you used. I also like a lot of the different polyrhythms that are layered on top of each other. 

4 hours ago, Eickso said:

- Favorite part?

- Things you dislike/things to fix?

My favorite parts are where there are more melodic elements, like the trumpet/piccolo melody starting in m. 91, and when it returns in m. 166. This gives my ears something distinct to latch on to, and are the most memorable to me.

Things I would fix: This may be more of a critique on the "minimalist" style, but if it were me I would want more melodic elements in the opening section. I like all of the elements you used, but for the most part they are all rhythmic units that slowly phase in and out without any variation, and as a result the first 7-8 pages or so kind of blend together and it's hard for me to pick out anything memorable. I kept expecting a melody to rise above all of the different elements to give a distinct definition to the section. Again, this may have been what you were going for, and if so, good job! I'm no expert in minimalist music, but I think the piece fits into the style very well. These are just my impressions as a casual listener.

Another thing that I think would be cool is if you changed keys at some point. I think if you pivoted to another key center it would add interest by giving the piece some unexpected energy.

4 hours ago, Eickso said:

- What do you imagine when listening to it?

I think this would work well as background music in a cheery film scene. I could picture a lively marketplace with people busily rushing about, with new people coming and going as the different thematic material enters and exits.

4 hours ago, Eickso said:

- Can you hear the influence from the composers listed above?

I definitely get a John Adams and Steve Reich vibe. I might hear a little bit of Stravinsky (Petrushka), but I don't hear too much Ravel.

I'd also like to ask a few questions of you if you don't mind:

• I'm curious how you came up with each rhythmic unit? It looks like you start out with a repeating figure, then gradually layer varying material with different rhythms on top (5 against 6 for example) Is there some procedure behind how you came up with each set of new material? Is there some relation between each new unit? Or was it: start with  a motive in 5, then add something in 6, then try something in 4, etc. until you found something you like? Did you consider the counterpoint between the voices as you did this?
• What do you want listeners to take away from the music? I don't listen to a lot of minimalist music, so I'm curious what you think the main themes are. What do you expect listeners to remember about your music a week or so after hearing it? Is it a particular melody, or is it more of a "vibe"?
• What context is the music primarily intended to fit into? Do you see this as a film soundtrack? Or something you would listen to in your car? Or something to be seen live in concert?

Thanks for sharing, I'm looking forward to the remaining movements!

Hi Eickso ! 😄

Nice orchestral piece very agreable and well made. 

I noted p9;16;17 some ppppp in the Piccolo, BbClarinet, Bassoon that might not be possible because of the high register.

-Piccolo b.87 is in a low register but I don't think it will sound pppppp.

-Cl Bb1 b87 it's impossible it will be tense in this register.

-Bs b181 I think Ab is too high to be played pppp 

-Ob b181 pppp is not possible in this register 

I didn't look at the whole score into details but I can if you think it might be of some interest to you.

I hope it was helpful ☔

Best,

Paul Orsoni

2 hours ago, Paul Orsoni said:

Hi Eickso ! 😄

Nice orchestral piece very agreable and well made. 

I noted p9;16;17 some ppppp in the Piccolo, BbClarinet, Bassoon that might not be possible because of the high register.

-Piccolo b.87 is in a low register but I don't think it will sound pppppp.

-Cl Bb1 b87 it's impossible it will be tense in this register.

-Bs b181 I think Ab is too high to be played pppp 

-Ob b181 pppp is not possible in this register 

Hi Paul! Thank you for listening to my piece! Always appreciated:

To clear up some of the confusion regardings dynamics, I try to write to make things sound the way I want, so the markings often look ridiculous to get noteperformer to play at the quietness I want. For a final score, much of the dynamics would be replaced with something.

The clarinet part is very possible (source: am a clarinetist and played that spot on clarinet the way I wanted it). No other instrument had the piercing timbre I wanted, and the high range of the clarinet is not as uncontrollable as you might think! Many many fingerings for that note. I’d say the concert F (the one I wrote at that spot) is about where any composer should consider stopping at, but we can go higher. Plus, it is a very quick passage on that note.

Thanks again, Paul 🙂 

2 hours ago, Paul Orsoni said:

10 hours ago, Thatguy v2.0 said:

To me this sounded like "Stravinsky on a short ride in a fast machine" 😄 

I loved this, especially in the later half. The ostinatos got a bit tiresome as it went on, so the little developments with the melody later on were very welcome. My qualms with minimalism are aesthetic, so I get the layers and layers building on top of each other, just not what I usually go for in my own music.

That said, I think you gave us a wonderful showcase with the command of the entire orchestera. I like a lot of the polyrhythmic ideas you deploy, and you blend the instruments very well. Awesome job here! I see you only have a few posts, my advice is to critique other's works for more feedback. 

 

Hi “Thatguy”! So happy to hear you enjoyed my piece! That is quite the compliment of a descriptor, as both Stravinsky and Adams have sounds I draw heavy influence from. 

Minimalism is certainly strange sometimes! My biggest problem with composers like Reich, Adams, and Glass are that the music takes too long to GO somewhere. And often, it never does! Their music has these amazing textures, but so often it lacks that new drive forward to keep things fresh. I am all for ostinatos, but if there is not something being built towards or new flows of cool ideas often, it is easy to get bored. 
 

In the least bragging way, I am so pleasantly surprised about people’s comments on my orchestration and writing for the orchestra... I have only been composing for 3 years and do not know any theory... I just write and can hear the way composers use instruments and sort of notate that in my head/know how to implement that into my own writing.

Thanks again for the kind words and listening!

8 hours ago, PaperComposer said:

I do certainly hear the influence of the composers listed above minus maybe Ravel which I didn't hear in this piece.

I hear a very intricate and differentiated orchestral piece.  It reminds me a little of the turning of cogs in a giant clock.  I guess it reminds me of clockwork.

I don't think I can give you any advice on what to improve as you pretty much have a great ability with the orchestra.  I like the way you write for the piano as part of this ensemble.  The timpani part is also quite cool and I see you use all 5 timpani drums quite liberally and skillfully.

I like the whole piece not just any particular part.  I like how you still manage to have contrasting parts to this while continuing a somewhat trance-like pattern.  With that kind of pattern I know some of the minimalist composers have struggled to write adequate endings/finales but I like your ending in this piece.  It's short and to the point.  Thanks for the music!

 

Hi PaperComposer! Thanks for taking the time to listen to my piece, and I am so happy you enjoyed it. I love writing, and I especially love hearing the feedback of my hard work from others. It means a lot to be able to be confident saying I made something great, and I will never that for granted.

With Ravel, the influence is definitely more subtle. Daphnis Suite 2 used to be my favorite piece, so things like the piccolo melodic run are akin to flute moments in Daphnis.

That’s a cool description! I love having my music built on layers and constantly moving forward creating new textures and invoking different feelings.

Thank you for all of the kind words and the listen 🙂 I will be sure to post the new movements when finished, and the whole piece as well. It’d be awesome to get this performed someday.

6 hours ago, gmm said:

I like it. It definitely has a minimalist vibe. You use a lot of really neat textures and effects, and you write well for the instruments you used. I also like a lot of the different polyrhythms that are layered on top of each other. 

My favorite parts are where there are more melodic elements, like the trumpet/piccolo melody starting in m. 91, and when it returns in m. 166. This gives my ears something distinct to latch on to, and are the most memorable to me.

Things I would fix: This may be more of a critique on the "minimalist" style, but if it were me I would want more melodic elements in the opening section. I like all of the elements you used, but for the most part they are all rhythmic units that slowly phase in and out without any variation, and as a result the first 7-8 pages or so kind of blend together and it's hard for me to pick out anything memorable. I kept expecting a melody to rise above all of the different elements to give a distinct definition to the section. Again, this may have been what you were going for, and if so, good job! I'm no expert in minimalist music, but I think the piece fits into the style very well. These are just my impressions as a casual listener.

Another thing that I think would be cool is if you changed keys at some point. I think if you pivoted to another key center it would add interest by giving the piece some unexpected energy.

I think this would work well as background music in a cheery film scene. I could picture a lively marketplace with people busily rushing about, with new people coming and going as the different thematic material enters and exits.

I definitely get a John Adams and Steve Reich vibe. I might hear a little bit of Stravinsky (Petrushka), but I don't hear too much Ravel.

I'd also like to ask a few questions of you if you don't mind:

• I'm curious how you came up with each rhythmic unit? It looks like you start out with a repeating figure, then gradually layer varying material with different rhythms on top (5 against 6 for example) Is there some procedure behind how you came up with each set of new material? Is there some relation between each new unit? Or was it: start with  a motive in 5, then add something in 6, then try something in 4, etc. until you found something you like? Did you consider the counterpoint between the voices as you did this?
• What do you want listeners to take away from the music? I don't listen to a lot of minimalist music, so I'm curious what you think the main themes are. What do you expect listeners to remember about your music a week or so after hearing it? Is it a particular melody, or is it more of a "vibe"?
• What context is the music primarily intended to fit into? Do you see this as a film soundtrack? Or something you would listen to in your car? Or something to be seen live in concert?

Thanks for sharing, I'm looking forward to the remaining movements!

 

Hi gmm! Thanks for taking the time to listen and write out your thoughts for me. It means a lot!

Most of this piece I fine-tuned, so the lack of melodic moments throughout the first few pages is intentional. The Violin 1 part right after the first big moment (after it dies down and Violin 2 is playing the triplet-y thing) is meant to be the next motif to grasp onto, after the 1st being the opening bars.

Minimalism definitely has its annoyances with me. I listed in a previous comment reply above how most music never GOES anywhere in minimalism, and just lacks that new material that would elevate it to awesome-status. That is where I try to improve on the music from artists I love. But again, most of this piece I was very meticulate how each structure was molded to create a series of textures and moments for the listener.

I am not a big fan of key changes! I toyed with the idea of one in this, but I want to save it for another movement. The constant flow into new textures definitely gives the piece enough variety and difference to not need a key change to spice things up... if I made the mvt longer then I would be inclined to agree with you!

In reply to your questions, I want to let you know that I do not think about it as in-depth or seriously as you might think when making these “polyrhythmic” things or just in general. It can simply be brought down to “I am composing this section and I think something like *this* would be cool” and then if it sticks, it sticks! Sometimes it is cool but I have to rework it. There isn’t any real planning I do ever, but moreso just ideas of “Hey maybe if I did something in the trumpets doing 4:5 it would sound cool” and then it does and I keep it.

My music for listeners (and myself), is meant to be a demonstration of unique textures and musical moments more for getting that goosebump feeling (or any feeling I am trying to invoke). Sometimes I use a melody to make things seem bold, sometimes no melody is needed to make a section sound absolutely ethereal, but the intention of my music being about the moment-to-moment feelings you get listening to it is most important. I copied the orchestration I heard in Rite of Spring and put my own twist on it to recreate my favorite music moment ever, but unique to me! For reference... maybe around the 2:55 mark where the strings go loud and it is the 2 clarinets alone playing the eighth notes, quickly quieting to the horns and piano playing the melody/bassline quietly and growing into something big. It is things like this I hope to capture people into my musical world of goosebumps and music-loving.

Hopefully my music is for a concert setting! I want nothing more than to have my music performed and head the nuances of my music brought to life. I am not confident I will ever get my music performed in that way, though.

Thanks again for listening and talking to me! Check out the other replies for a little bit more about my process and about the piece!

I think this piece goes away from minimalism. Not typical such a large orchestra, that you use efficiently in timbral combinations.

Good work. Perfectly notated.

@Eickso I just listened to your piece again and noticed that you have horns on the first page playing muted but I don't see that marked anywhere in the score.  You might want to add 'con sordino' in front of those notes to indicate that they are to be played with mutes.  😃

Edit:  I see now that you have little "+" marks by the notes that I didn't notice before.  Sorry about that!  My mistake.

18 hours ago, Eickso said:

Hi Paul! Thank you for listening to my piece! Always appreciated:

To clear up some of the confusion regardings dynamics, I try to write to make things sound the way I want, so the markings often look ridiculous to get noteperformer to play at the quietness I want. For a final score, much of the dynamics would be replaced with something.

The clarinet part is very possible (source: am a clarinetist and played that spot on clarinet the way I wanted it). No other instrument had the piercing timbre I wanted, and the high range of the clarinet is not as uncontrollable as you might think! Many many fingerings for that note. I’d say the concert F (the one I wrote at that spot) is about where any composer should consider stopping at, but we can go higher. Plus, it is a very quick passage on that note.

Thanks again, Paul 🙂 

 

Hi 😊

I understand now how you write your nuances it makes a lot of sense !

Oh I tought you wanted a soft sound for the clarinet. So the sound is as quiet as possible but will have this high EbClarinet Texture to it ? 

I tought it was impossible regarding the airflow but now I know better thanks !

I am actually very curious to know how it sounds ! Do you think you can post an example in this thread ? That could be fire 🔥!

Thanks again,

Paul

Cool music, the 5/8 in this piece works really well.