Sonatina Arcaica I

First part of a short sonatina. Called arcaica (ancient) because it uses modes, but also PC set techniques. Played live.

I loved the lyrical melodies you have at C, E, F and when C returns again.  The rest of it - I can hear that it has a structure but some of the chromatic lines you have in the 4/4 sections don't make as much musical sense to me as the rest of the piece.  Overall an enjoyable listen!  What kind of programmatic content is this supposed to accompany?

2 hours ago, PaperComposer said:

I loved the lyrical melodies you have at C, E, F and when C returns again.  The rest of it - I can hear that it has a structure but some of the chromatic lines you have in the 4/4 sections don't make as much musical sense to me as the rest of the piece.  Overall an enjoyable listen!  What kind of programmatic content is this supposed to accompany?

 

The Mosaic Form is what supports the piece.

Very nice! I really liked all the unique and interesting harmonies you used.

The chromaticism in places like m.3 and m.13 was a little unusual the first time I heard it, but after a couple of listens I like it. I think it adds a unique feel to the piece.

I'm curious what kind of harmonic devices you used. I though it might be some unique modes, but I noticed in m.17 for example you have an Eb on the downbeat in the left hand followed by an E natural in the right hand on beat 3. Would you mind explaining how you came up with this? I would be interested to learn.

The only other thing I would say is I really liked each section individually, but they felt very fractured and undeveloped. Especially letter E, it felt like it was leading up to something but was cut abruptly short. 

On 8/8/2020 at 3:36 PM, Luis Hernández said:

PC set techniques

What't that?

Thanks for sharing!

6 hours ago, gmm said:

Very nice! I really liked all the unique and interesting harmonies you used.

The chromaticism in places like m.3 and m.13 was a little unusual the first time I heard it, but after a couple of listens I like it. I think it adds a unique feel to the piece.

I'm curious what kind of harmonic devices you used. I though it might be some unique modes, but I noticed in m.17 for example you have an Eb on the downbeat in the left hand followed by an E natural in the right hand on beat 3. Would you mind explaining how you came up with this? I would be interested to learn.

The only other thing I would say is I really liked each section individually, but they felt very fractured and undeveloped. Especially letter E, it felt like it was leading up to something but was cut abruptly short. 

What't that?

 

Thanks for sharing!

 

OK first, it is built upon a Mosaic Form, which means there are different parts (named with letters) of material that combine in the order I want. No cadences, no beginning or end. It could be arranged in many different ways.

Part A is written in harmony by seconds. If you take a look all the notes (except some that function  as retards or suspensions) ara a second away (vertically), or a second plus an octave.

Part B is also in harmony by seconds.

Part C is in D dorian

Part D uses a Pitch Class Set, which is a theory long to tell here, but based in a particular order o some pitches, that is to say, the "cell" that glues the part is the interval relatioship of the set: 01457 = 0 - m2 - M3 - 4ª - 5ª

Part E is in locrian Ab

Far F is in lydian Eb

So each part uses a different harmony, and the mosaic is finally:  ABCDAEBDFC.

There's a second movement I'm revising now.

12 hours ago, Luis Hernández said:

OK first, it is built upon a Mosaic Form, which means there are different parts (named with letters) of material that combine in the order I want. No cadences, no beginning or end. It could be arranged in many different ways.

Interesting, I had never heard of this. I suppose the art is in how one chooses to arrange the parts.

12 hours ago, Luis Hernández said:

So each part uses a different harmony, and the mosaic is finally:  ABCDAEBDFC.

Ah ok, so it's kind of like ABCD is the first half, and the second half is repeat with the C and D switched, with new material between the AB and DC respectively. A creative way to organize the form without sounding random.

12 hours ago, Luis Hernández said:

Part A is written in harmony by seconds. If you take a look all the notes (except some that function  as retards or suspensions) ara a second away (vertically), or a second plus an octave.

I noticed this. It looks like the section is entirely in D major, except for m.3 and m.7. Are these just chromatic explorations while maintaining the harmony by seconds?

12 hours ago, Luis Hernández said:

Part B is also in harmony by seconds.

I like how it's cleverly done so the left and right hand parts are just switched from Part A. Well done.

12 hours ago, Luis Hernández said:

Part D uses a Pitch Class Set, which is a theory long to tell here, but based in a particular order o some pitches, that is to say, the "cell" that glues the part is the interval relatioship of the set: 01457 = 0 - m2 - M3 - 4ª - 5ª

Neat, I will do some research since I'm not too familiar with this.

12 hours ago, Luis Hernández said:

Part E is in locrian Ab

Do you perhaps mean Ab lydian? I noticed that this is the same as Part F, Part F is just down a Perfect Fourth, and clearly in Eb lydian. The only exception is the A natural in m.47, did you mean for this to be an Ab?

Thanks for taking the time to explain the theory behind this! I'm looking forward to the remaining movements.

33 minutes ago, gmm said:

Do you perhaps mean Ab lydian? I noticed that this is the same as Part F, Part F is just down a Perfect Fourth, and clearly in Eb lydian. The only exception is the A natural in m.47, did you mean for this to be an Ab?

Yes, sorry, it is Ab lydian, the natural A is a passing tone.

Mosaic Form is one of the many contemporary Forms. It has been used by many composers. It was "invented" by Sravinsky and Stockhausen, but it is still used.

For example Symphonies of Winds, which has this structure of Mosaic (I include the score in case it is of your interest):

8 minutes ago, Luis Hernández said:

Yes, sorry, it is Ab lydian, the natural A is a passing tone.

Ah ok, I only ask because there is an Eb that corresponds to this in m.70.

11 minutes ago, Luis Hernández said:

Mosaic Form is one of the many contemporary Forms. It has been used by many composers. It was "invented" by Sravinsky and Stockhausen, but it is still used.

For example Symphonies of Winds, which has this structure of Mosaic (I include the score in case it is of your interest):

Interesting, I will check it out.

@gmm  Another Formal device (contemporary) I like very much, and I use it, is the Cagean Boxes (invented by John Cage). For example, in In a landscape.

Sorry, I'm so tired of classic forms that I'm fond of using other schemes. You'll find little information about all this stuff.

This is perhaps the most enjoyable piece by John Cage that I've ever heard.  I see that this was written 4 years before "4 minutes 33 seconds" which I strongly dislike.  I couldn't hear the harmonics at the end in the recording.  😐

@papercomposer

John Cage is one of the most important and influential contemporary composers.

4:33 is more than a piece of music. It is a demostration that absolute silence doesn’t exist, and noise is part of music. It is more a concept than a piece of music.

12 hours ago, Luis Hernández said:

It is more a concept than a piece of music.

I'll agree with that.

12 hours ago, Luis Hernández said:

4:33 is more than a piece of music. It is a demostration that absolute silence doesn’t exist, and noise is part of music.

What I'm worried about is the implication that noise = music.  With his '4:33' John Cage attacked the concept of a masterpiece in music.  Namely that the composer should try as well as they can to create a piece of art and exercise as much control as they can over the sound produced by the performers (to distinguish it from mere noise).  With composition the composer is entering into the branch of philosophy called aesthetics in which the expression of beauty plays a dominant role.

@PaperComposer  I think one of the great contributions to Music from J. Cage is the "liberation of noise". 

Cage was esential in many fields

• Indeterminacy and aleatory music
• Extended techniques (prepared piano)
• New contemporary forms
• The noise

@Luis Hernández I agree that John Cage greatly enriched the palette of available sounds within the orchestra and piano music by introducing extended techniques (this includes prepared piano - but did he also invent previously unintended ways of playing other instruments?).  Indeterminacy and aleatory music is also a great innovation and I myself have sometimes used 12-sided musicians dice to help me come up with chord progressions (I roll four of them at a time and hope to come up with some kind of a triad with an added extension).  So when you mention "the noise" I assume you're including all those things.  The thing is "4:33" is not really a very good example of any of these things as the noise generated in that piece is not made by the performer(s) (sometimes the pianist includes a page turner LoL) unless you count the percussive effect of opening and closing the piano lid in the performance. 🤔