Create your own mode!

Anybody else think of modes this way?  I don't know if many are aware of categorizing the modes according to brightness as this youtube video portrays.  The brightest mode is lydian and the darkest locrian.  These modes are arrived at by adding sharps to the major scale or by adding/removing flats from the minor.  But what if you add flats to a mode with sharps in it?  Or add a sharp to a mode with flats?  What is your favorite combination?  Where in the brightness scale does it fall?

Interesting. But I don't believe strictly in those starting points: sharps 0 happy, flats = sad.

I told you that I was very interested in developing this world of the modes in a wider scope.

Apart from the 7 eclesiastical modes... there can be hundreds. But the challenge is to make a mode sound different from the omnipresent major mode (and minor). That implies totally avoiding progressions that remind dominant-tonic. In fact, in modes we don't speak in those terms but cadential chords (instead of dominant).

I wrote an entire book about how to manage any scale, in Spanish. Well, it was more to study this field.

But here is an example: the Q scale (invented by me). The heptatonic scales must have the 7 degrees (C, D, E....) so this is the Q scale: Cbb, Dbb, Ebb, Fx, Gx, Ax, B#

Enharmonicalle reordered is as you can see. Triads are not possible in the classic way.

Modes provide infinite possibilities, even using two at a time... Or as in this case: make your own mode.

Another excellent topic! I could go all day talking about modes.

10 hours ago, PaperComposer said:

Anybody else think of modes this way?  I don't know if many are aware of categorizing the modes according to brightness as this youtube video portrays. 

Yes, there are many who have described it this way. While it can certainly be useful, I would caution against taking it to the extreme where a certain mode is pidgeon-holed into a predefined degree of "brightness". I think other things like context and voicing play an understated role in how "bright" a mode feels, and its harmonic effect in general. While the video shows a couple of examples where lydian feels bright, depending on context lydian can feel very dark, at least to me. If you're interested I can post an example when I get home.

10 hours ago, PaperComposer said:

These modes are arrived at by adding sharps to the major scale or by adding/removing flats from the minor.  But what if you add flats to a mode with sharps in it?  Or add a sharp to a mode with flats?  What is your favorite combination?

There are of course countless possibilities, and even more if you don't restrict yourself to only 7-note scales. I've been recently experimenting with modes of the melodic major scale, and the 3rd and 4th modes of this scale (lydian augmented and lydian dominant) have my attention, at least for the moment.

11 hours ago, PaperComposer said:

Where in the brightness scale does it fall?

While the brightness scale can certainly be useful, it's also good to think of modes from the same parent scale as being in their own "family". Each mode of the major scale has it's own distinct character, but they all have certain quality that is similar between them due to being derived from same scale. Likewise for the melodic minor scale, the harmonic minor scale, and any other unique parent scale you can think of. Each of these families will has a unique character compared to other families.

This makes it harder to use the brightness scale when comparing modes from different parent scales (at least for me). For example, a scale like lydian dominant has one raised (#4) and one lowered (b7) note when compared to the Ionian mode, so you might think there are roughly the same in terms of "brightness". But these two modes have a very different sound that I don't think can be described with simply "brightness". In the end you just have to judge the sound of the mode on its own merits and determine if it provides the sound you are going for.

Modes are something I find very interesting, and something I spend a lot of time experimenting with. The resources I have found on Youtube and elsewhere have always left me wanting more, so it's good to see some discussion here. I think some people get too bogged down in analyzing what mode a certain piece may or may not be in (there are many Youtube videos going WAY in depth on this). Ultimately, a mode is just a theoretical concept - what's more important is finding creative and unique ways to make music with that concept, rather than following any preconceived "rules".

7 hours ago, Luis Hernández said:

But here is an example: the Q scale (invented by me). The heptatonic scales must have the 7 degrees (C, D, E....) so this is the Q scale: Cbb, Dbb, Ebb, Fx, Gx, Ax, B#

Shouldn't the B# be spelled enharmonically as C natural? Also, how do you handle the scale extending beyond an octave? When you reach the top B#, do you go "up" to the Cbb?

4 minutes ago, gmm said:

Shouldn't the B# be spelled enharmonically as C natural? Also, how do you handle the scale extending beyond an octave? When you reach the top B#, to you go "up" to the Cbb?

Well, the original scale has the 7 degrees without repetition. The second row are enharmonic pitchtes. The C# in the second row must be a C as you said, it's a mistake. 

@Luis Hernández That is neat.  So it has a #4 as well as a natural 4 which sometimes happens in certain genres of folk music.  It also has a minor 3rd and a major 3rd which is something I heard that Bartok likes to do.

1 minute ago, Luis Hernández said:

Well, the original scale has the 7 degrees without repetition. The second row are enharmonic pitchtes. The C# in the second row must be a C as you said, it's a mistake. 

 

Ah ok. On the other hand, now you have two different degrees that are the same enharmonic note (Dbb and B# are both the same as C). I don't think this is really a problem, though, ultimately this is a pitch class set of six pitches with the form (0,2,3,4,5,7). 

5 minutes ago, gmm said:

Ah ok. On the other hand, now you have two different degrees that are the same enharmonic note (Dbb and B# are both the same as C). I don't think this is really a problem, though, ultimately this is a pitch class set of six pitches with the form (0,2,3,4,5,7). 

Yes, in fact, any mode is a PC set... It's another focus on the same material. Nice.

3 minutes ago, Luis Hernández said:

Yes, in fact, any mode is a PC set... It's another focus on the same material. Nice.

I've been doing some research on set theory since you pointed me toward it on the other thread. It's an interesting way to thing about organizing pitches.

Another thought, if any mode can be thought of as a PC set, can any PC set be thought of as a mode???

Just now, gmm said:

Another thought, if any mode can be thought of as a PC set, can any PC set be thought of as a mode???

My concept of this issue is that a scale (or a PC set) is a fixed photo of something. 

A mode is when you put that scale to work, dynamically, with relationships between chords you make and whatever (which is different from functional harmony). In a way you create a system with logic inside it, and that's what makes it work. 

Ah, with all there is.... why people stay always in the same language?

My goal in music is to use anything: tonal, non-tonal. modal...... But looking for an expression, not easy, I know.

8 minutes ago, Luis Hernández said:

My concept of this issue is that a scale (or a PC set) is a fixed photo of something. 

A mode is when you put that scale to work, dynamically, with relationships between chords you make and whatever (which is different from functional harmony). In a way you create a system with logic inside it, and that's what makes it work. 

Ah, with all there is.... why people stay always in the same language?

Funny that none of these variations on the blues scale seems to be the one I remember learning in school:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blues_scale

For me a blues scale should look something like this: C D Eb E F# G A Bb C

Here is a really cool (and jazzy) use of the Super Locrian scale otherwise known as the altered dominant scale in jazz:  C Db Eb Fb Gb Ab Bb C

I like this scale, I use it sometimes: superlocrian bb7

I'd like to put an example of what I understand by scale-mode and making it sound genuine.

This is the javanese scale. Grade I is an stable minor chord. Characteristic notes are b2, b3 and b7. So, cadential chords should include them: Bbm, Eb7. Avoid G - C progression, if we do that, it would sound like minor mode.

2 hours ago, Luis Hernández said:

I'd like to put an example of what I understand by scale-mode and making it sound genuine.

This is the javanese scale. Grade I is an stable minor chord. Characteristic notes are b2, b3 and b7. So, cadential chords should include them: Bbm, Eb7. Avoid G - C progression, if we do that, it would sound like minor mode.

Cool - I guess it's kind of a hybrid of phrygian and dorian although you're avoiding the traditional sounding progressions that are inherent in it.  Kinda like in modal jazz you have "avoid notes" and "target notes".  EDIT:  I meant to say "character tones" as opposed to "avoid tones" and "guide tones" which are used in more traditional tonal jazz improvisation.

I also found a neat online "identify the mode you hear" type of exercise:

https://www.musictheory.net/exercises/ear-scale

Too bad you can't add your own modes to it to further develop your ear. 😕