I defy you!

I'd like to know that there are some composers who can make some pieces, not for "C major" or "A minor" keys, but for more advanced keys, such as "B major" (4+ accidentals).

If you want to try, compose something you can actually play with 4+ accidentals.

This is to convince me that there are other keys on existance.

I'd like to know that there are some composers who can make some pieces, not for "C major" or "A minor" keys, but for more advanced keys, such as "B major" (4+ accidentals).

If you want to try, compose something you can actually play with 4+ accidentals.

This is to convince me that there are other keys on existance.

I commonly write in the 4-7 flat range of minors. I just love the texture.

I'd like to know that there are some composers who can make some pieces, not for "C major" or "A minor" keys, but for more advanced keys, such as "B major" (4+ accidentals).

If you want to try, compose something you can actually play with 4+ accidentals.

This is to convince me that there are other keys on existance.

Looks like to you, B Major is like writing an hour long symphony.

There are lots of reasons to use those keys, and also lots of reasons not to use them, depending upon your application.

Sure, I've used keys like C-sharp minor and G-flat major in some of my non-classical my piano pieces. I'm not likely to write a symphony in either of those keys, partly because I'm a classical revivalist and it wouldn't be particularly authentic, and partly because I'm not willing to sacrifice the sonority of open strings and their sympathetic vibration by writing in a key too far away from their influence. I'm also aware of what calibre of musicians I'm likely to be writing for, and writing an overture in B-flat minor for a community orchestra is asking for trouble. It's difficult enough for ordinary string players to play consistently in tune without throwing them a curve like that.

I'm also aware of what calibre of musicians I'm likely to be writing for, and writing an overture in B-flat minor for a community orchestra is asking for trouble.

However Bb minor is a great key for wind ensembles and concert bands. :D

I wonder what makes Mr. Reglay believe that so much of the music we've written here is in C major or A minor? Granted, I personally haven't gone through everyone's stuff here with my Kostka/Payne book, but I'd sort of just generally assume that pretty much all composers know how to delve into different keys. I guess it's also a function, Mr. Graham stated, of ergonomics for the instruments for which one is writing. I had a piece that I originally started in Bb minor but changed down to A minor because one of the key instruments was a solo cello, and as a cellist at college explained to me, the strings just resonate better when not stopped, giving greater musicality. However, there is of course something to be said for the timbre of a stopped, less resonant string--it can be very useful if it's in proper context.

Anyways, I digress: I have a nasty habit of writing a lot in Eb (major and minor) or F#/Gb major...which I guess is a function partly of me liking to play on the black keys. But if I'm going to the keyboard with a tune already in my head, I'll find the tonic as I hear it in my head, and this is usually something that my subconcioussness or muse picks arbitrarily. As the piece unfolds and I choose instrumentation, however, I might transpose the piece for the instruments.

I find that Major flat keys are much easier to play in, but I think that's just a personal prefrence for me. But I agree with Mr. Graham, it is better to think of the single player's ability in terms of the key your choosing. a good musician in my opinion should be able to play in any key signature, but it's kind of pointless to "throw them a curve ball" like that

I personally love the key of B major. My college thesis was a Symphony in B major with modulations to keys like D# Major/minor. Although a couple of the composition professors stated that is was an unusual key for a tonal symphony, we did agree that it is quite a Bright and Majestic key for orchestral writing. My unfinished piano concerto's tonic center is B major. It is true that certain keys give you the benefit of open strings for string writing. I do agree with J. Lee on when it comes to for whom you are composing. Right now I'm working on a commission for a youth band and chorus and from what I was told about the band ensemble I thought it would be best to write in the key of C with a few hints of other keys such as F Major, A minor, Bb Major. Although, I like seeing pieces in other "complicated" keys the reasons for choosing the "simple" keys are understandable.

More "advanced"? Frederic Chopin believed that the easiest key to play in on the piano was B major, because the scale fit the contours of the hands so naturally.

And shall we consider the example of Schubert's famous Gb major impromptu (that's 6 flats, if you don't feel like thinking)? A number of publishers tried to make it "easier to play" by transposing it up a half-step, to G major... it turns out that it's actually much easier to play in the original Gb, as the pianist's fingers can just glide over the black keys in a way that's virtually impossible when playing mostly on white keys and stretching to hit black keys.

More sharps and flats in the key signature do not necessarily make a piece more "advanced" - the composer often chooses those keys because they are actually the most convenient to play.

What your saying is true for the piano. The key of B Major would not be a trumpet players first choice. Besides, if you are merely talking about some melodic and scale passages than B major is not always "advanced", but as a pianist when you other pianistic techniques are used keys with more sharps and flats can cause problems and therefore seem "advanced".

I agree that a composer like Chopin new well enought that when a key is chosen for composition, the aspects of the piece should lend itself to that key. It makes sense that it wouldn't work in G major because he was choosing a key that lend itself to the technique he was using. But, when you consider other piano techniques as well as other instruments I still believe that some keys can seem "advanced" while others seem "simple".

I defy you!

I'd like to know that there are some composers who can make some pieces, not for "C major" or "A minor" keys, but for more advanced keys, such as "B major" (4+ accidentals).

*shakes in boots*

*trembles wildly*

*cries*

B major??!! no...no NOOOOO! The sharps! They pierce me, precious..they pierce me!

Oh wait. B major with only 4 accidentals. Hmm. Well I beleive that's B Mixolydian. *calms down*

Oh wait. B major with only 4 accidentals. Hmm. Well I beleive that's B Mixolydian. *calms down*

Notice he said 4+ accidentals...not 4. 4+. Meaning he was referring to and key with 4 or more accidentals in the key signature, of which B major is one (having 5 sharps). At least, that's how I read it.

I can't take up your defy!

Notice he said 4+ accidentals...not 4. 4+. Meaning he was referring to and key with 4 or more accidentals in the key signature, of which B major is one (having 5 sharps). At least, that's how I read it.

Oh hush. Letting a eensy weensy little sharp get in the way of my trying to poke fun. Besides, he mentioned B major as the holy grail then said 4 (or more) sharps.

I still think B Mixolydian in this context is thus fitting. :P

I think F# major is the strangest key in terms of accidentals

I can't take up your defy!

uhhh.......... in english please

(sorry for the double post)

I find F#/B/Db majors alright actually - the ones i have trouble with are the 3/4 sharp/flat keys (Ab, Eb, E etc.). With C major, F, G etc. you know that most of the notes, if not all, will be naturals (white keys); with F#, B, Db etc. you know most will be accidentals (black keys) - but with the sort of in between ones I'm sometimes left guessing as to which notes I should flatten/sharpen, and I find they are the ones that go wrong most often.

Ab Major is a pig of a key for me, but I sight-read the B major study in my study book...

I find F#/B/Db majors alright actually - the ones i have trouble with are the 3/4 sharp/flat keys (Ab, Eb, E etc.). With C major, F, G etc. you know that most of the notes, if not all, will be naturals (white keys); with F#, B, Db etc. you know most will be accidentals (black keys) - but with the sort of in between ones I'm sometimes left guessing as to which notes I should flatten/sharpen, and I find they are the ones that go wrong most often.

Ab Major is a pig of a key for me, but I sight-read the B major study in my study book...

Well, I hardly ever use a key signature, as my tone center either doesn't exist, or switches around a lot, so using a key signature at all is quite difficult and inconvenient.

Has anyone ever seen Satie's Vexations? My composition seminar group is performing it this semester. It's hellish. It's a lot of double-flats and double-sharps. Quite meditative until you worry that you're going to mess up, and then all of a sudden, you screw up all over the place.

More "advanced"? Frederic Chopin believed that the easiest key to play in on the piano was B major, because the scale fit the contours of the hands so naturally.

And shall we consider the example of Schubert's famous Gb major impromptu (that's 6 flats, if you don't feel like thinking)? A number of publishers tried to make it "easier to play" by transposing it up a half-step, to G major... it turns out that it's actually much easier to play in the original Gb, as the pianist's fingers can just glide over the black keys in a way that's virtually impossible when playing mostly on white keys and stretching to hit black keys.

More sharps and flats in the key signature do not necessarily make a piece more "advanced" - the composer often chooses those keys because they are actually the most convenient to play.

Well said. Keys with lots of sharps or flats in them are often harder to read because people start learning in C major before they branch out to those keys. But once one has read a sufficient number of pieces in every key, all of them are equally easy. I don't see anything more or less complex about any major or minor key. They are all the same pattern. A piece that uses only C, F, and G for example will be no more "complex" if transposed to G flat major. Any chromatic notes will appear as accidentals in the same places, only you might find naturals instead of sharps, and so on and so forth.

As I percussionist, and a non-piano-playing pianist, I must say this:

I HATE any peice that has more 4 sharps or 5 flats with all of my soul. I wish I could take those keys (especially G flat and C sharp) and launch them into space so far no one would ever hear of them again. Excuse the pun.

Writing in those keys aren't difficult, but I like to write stuff people can play. Playing a triplet sixteenth note run on a vibraphone isn't exactly easy in C flat. In the key of C, however, I could do that with my eyes closed.

Then again, so could a monkey.:P

But my point is, most normal people don't like playing in 'advanced keys.'

On another point, writing in G is as easy as writing in F sharp.

~Kal

On another point, writing in G is as easy as writing in F sharp.

Is it because each one has only one accidental on them?

Besides, I started this thread because I think C and G major are two of the most used keys in the whole world (except on mine) followed by A minor and F major.

On another point, writing in G is as easy as writing in F sharp.

Is it because each one has only one accidental on them?

Besides, I started this thread because I think C and G major are two of the most used keys in the whole world (except on mine) followed by A minor and F major.

I must notice that there are some easy works on advanced keys such as "Clair de Lune" and "La Fille aux Cheveux de Lin" from Debussy.

Is it because each one has only one accidental on them?

:thumbsup:

Last time I checked, F# has 6 sharps, not one.

What I meant was, writing in any key is a lot simply than playing in any key (except for in jazz), and since a lot more people can play in C, G, and F than they can C sharp, F sharp, and C flat, they tend to write in those keys.

When you're making up with a song on piano, espicially if you're a beginning player like me, you tend to stay away from keys like F#.

~Kal

Excuse me, but I saw a "F" instead of "F sharp".

The thing is: can you compose and play on "advanced keys" (not necesarily F#)

Hi, have you seen my Prelude in G# minor?

http://www.youngcomposers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4410

It is not really that difficult a piece, though. I wrote it in G# minor not to show off the number of sharps, but mainly because it makes use of the lower registers of the piano, in the case of my composition.

Furthermore, G# is a rarely used key so it sounds "new", especially after listening to too many A minor/C minor pieces.

I'd use Cb Major over B Major any day. :happy: