Poll to determine interest in YC competitions/format of YC competitions

I know that the previous years Fall Competition never really got officially judged but it is what it is and I personally am already thinking about/looking forward to future competitions and what kind of interest YC members have in them.  Please take the poll which I've run by the previous competition officials @Noah Brode and @Monarcheon to determine how you'd like the competitions to be structured in the future.  If you have any additional suggestions, questions or comments you can respond to this post!

I went for the comment one.

Thoughtful criticism etc.

I think that the participants should be sent the number of votes they received. Plus, I think that the idea for the judges to give comments on the pieces in addition to their top 2-3 choices is a good idea since it provides the participants with feedback beyond just whether they won (1st or 2nd place) or not, or how many votes they received (if even that).

Anyone else wondering how the math on this poll is functioning?  The poll says that 8 people have voted but the total number of votes adds up to 10 ... ???

I think:

1. Scoring system for everybody interested in listening.

2. Entrants must comment on the rest of people (but him/her, of course). No scoring here.

3. Volunteer judges comment on the works. No scoring, or the regular one.

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Judges are always influenced by their knowledge, skills, taste, etc...

What matters to win, in my opinion, is that people like the music, the piece, no matter if it is well done or not, technically. For that discussion we'll have the comments.

Also, I think the challenges must be more specific, but open.

13 hours ago, PaperComposer said:

Anyone else wondering how the math on this poll is functioning?  The poll says that 8 people have voted but the total number of votes adds up to 10 ... ???

 

Two people seem to have voted for two options. Or one person has voted for three options.

I voted for three options; it let me to do it so I thought it was possible. I am sorry, if I improperly interrupted the survey.

On 2/17/2021 at 12:21 AM, PaperComposer said:

Anyone else wondering how the math on this poll is functioning?  The poll says that 8 people have voted but the total number of votes adds up to 10 ... ???

 

I suppose I was hoping members to choose the top 3 without necessarily commenting. If an entrant wanted comment the entry could be placed in a separate section or one of the conventional sections "for review". It's then based on what people like and doesn't involve technical judgement. 

Put a time limit on the entry - like 3 or 4 minutes so it doesn't tie anyone up wading through the entries to decide. Listening to 10 entries at 3 minutes each is less demanding that if you allow up to say 15 minutes per piece.Plus it keeps the admin pretty simple.

This is why I couldn't vote but would have were the choice there.

Just some thoughts.

17 minutes ago, Quinn said:

I suppose I was hoping members to choose the top 3 without necessarily commenting. If an entrant wanted comment the entry could be placed in a separate section or one of the conventional sections "for review". It's then based on what people like and doesn't involve technical judgement.

I assumed that if the competition were administered this way then the comments that the entrants wrote for each other would be compiled into a pdf and released with the final results (it has also been done traditionally after the results had been released where the composers are encouraged to re-submit their compositions under their own name to get the contestants to review the work but at that point the comments would no longer be anonymous).

Also, my original comment was in response to the math of the poll in this particular forum above (idk if you thought I was talking about the competition poll?).

Hi, I know that this is not really related to the poll, but may I ask if there will be a spring yc competition?

Also, my opinion for the poll is that more judges are needed for the competition as well as for every participant to provide comments on others' works. Regarding the time limit suggested by @Quinn. However, I feel that 3-4 minutes may be a tad too short. Perhaps a maximum of 7-10 minutes would be better.

On 2/18/2021 at 10:56 PM, PaperComposer said:

 

Also, my original comment was in response to the math of the poll in this particular forum above (idk if you thought I was talking about the competition poll?).

 

Yes, there was no option in the poll for members to choose a 1, 2 and 3 (or some other scoring).

Why need works be judged? 

Just some thoughts out of interest.

7 hours ago, Quinn said:

Yes, there was no option in the poll for members to choose a 1, 2 and 3 (or some other scoring).

You mean like a top x list (top 3 or even a higher number)?  That's in the poll!  It's the in last and next to last option.

7 hours ago, Quinn said:

Why need works be judged?

Well, considering that the fall 2020 competition didn't have any judges and it's been hard to find judges, this poll is meant to determine if the participants are comfortable participating in a competition without judges or if they'd prefer more judges and still have the two-tiered system where there are popular winners by member voting and official winners by judging.  Of course if we still want judges then there would be the issue of finding/recruiting people who would judge without participating in the competition.  OR some of the above options allow the entrants to also judge the competition (only the other works besides their own).

13 hours ago, PaperComposer said:

You mean like a top x list (top 3 or even a higher number)?  That's in the poll!  It's the in last and next to last option.

Fine, except not sure about commenting on all entries being mandatory or an expectation. But hey, this isn't my competition so please disregard my remarks. They were a reflection on the time being tied up to "vote" if someone may have to listen through, say, 15 works and comment at 5 mins average per entry.

The issue of judging has been a pretty constant problem on the site for a long time. Basically, everyone wants to enter and nobody wants to judge. I get it, and I feel the same way most of the time. We're composers, not critics. That's why I think it is smart to include the judging portion as part of the responsibilities of each entrant. 

Quinn's point about limiting the length of each entry to not make it a burden on the competitors is valid. Perhaps we could limit the length of the entries based on the number of people participating. Fewer entries = longer time limit; More entries = lower time limit. 

I am a fan of each entrant ranking the works of every other entrant (excluding themselves) and providing a small comment (3 sentences or so) on each work. No grading or rubrics. This would help ensure that each entrant is truly listening to all of their competitors' works and judging/ranking them fairly. As far as the "blind" voting goes, I do not think it is necessary and it requires an impartial outsider to do a lot of busy-work. I don't think many (or any?) of us know each other in person, so the notion of bias, to me, doesn't factor in much. Perhaps the votes themselves could be private, but the submissions and comments could be public.

This way would obviously still result in an increased burden on the entrants to some extent, but it is necessary since nobody seems to want to volunteer to be judge. The burdens of judging would essentially be spread out among the entrants. We saw in the Summer 2020 competition that member voting can yield similar results to traditional judging (the same work won both prizes), so I think this route is a feasible way of handling the apparent lack of judges on YC.

Didn't read all the posts here, sorry if something is a repeat.

What if we leave the judging to any member here, regardless of whether they're an entrant or not. We could have a poll where anyone could vote for first second and third, and then everyone posts their pieces in the forums like normal for critique? I've always felt like the competitions here served as inspiration to write a piece by a deadline, and the reviews we'd get would be from those who would be willing to offer advice and criticism regardless. 

I've always viewed this place as a realm of like-minded peeps. I mean, it's not like there's a cash prize or a guaranteed performance for the winner. I understand not everyone would be "qualified" to judge (whatever that means), but everyone is entitled to their opinion, and it takes a huge workload off the members who have dedicated their time for FREE to judge past competitions. 

Isn't our primary goal to better ourselves as composers? idk

10 minutes ago, Thatguy v2.0 said:

What if we leave the judging to any member here, regardless of whether they're an entrant or not. We could have a poll where anyone could vote for first second and third, and then everyone posts their pieces in the forums like normal for critique? I've always felt like the competitions here served as inspiration to write a piece by a deadline, and the reviews we'd get would be from those who would be willing to offer advice and criticism regardless. 

In the Fall 2020 Competition @Tónskáld created a survey for YC members (any members not just entrants or official reviewers) to vote for their top 2 picks.  Those are the results that were used to determine the winners and placement although I don't think anyone besides the entrants who had a vested interest in the competition voted (I think there were 6? entrants who participated).  After the results were posted a few of us (myself included) posted their pieces in the forums to receive mutual feedback and we commented on each others pieces (but not everyone posted their pieces this way).

1 minute ago, PeterthePapercomPoser said:

I don't think anyone besides the entrants who had a vested interest in the competition voted (I think there were 6? entrants who participated).

Yeah I suppose that's the problem. It seems like most people that come here post a piece they'd like a review on, but don't review many other's works. I'll do my best to be a hype man for future comps