Dissonent intervals

So I'm in my frist semester as a college student for composition. I'm pretty much completely a tonal musician. My teacher is fine with that and I will be tuaght with that in mind, but my first assignment is to compose a clarinet and flute duo using only these intervals: m2, m3, tritone, m6, M7. Those are intervals between notes in one line; I can have major and perfect intervals bewteen the clarinet and flute.

I've already composed some possible meloidies and they are okay. I'm still keeping a tonal center by manipulating the meolides to start, end, and suggest a tone.

I've never done anything like this, before, though. I don't really know where to go or what to do as far as oveerall structure and how the instruments should relate. I've been playing by ear so far... but that only works when you ears are ready to play.

Oh, and it has to be a three part piece--not long, but total of all three parts will probably run up to eight minutes. I assumed fast/slow/fast, but it's not written in stone.

Any suggestions?

Hi here !...

Ehehe... you can tell to you're teaching that he is a very sly and intelligent teacher ! ehehe

That the perfect occasion to work on anything else than pitches dear !! :wub: Since you already know which intervals you have to use and since they are not of your choosing... create whatever is fast to create with these intervals (create some modes for examples! or whatever else you already thought). Mode are as efficient as tonalities for the tonal center you seek... it's just that it's easier to modulate more fast with the tonal system crafted over few hundred years.

Go as fast as you dare with the intervals... BUT... craft carefully the rythms (which are not imposed here), the timber... you should read about the timber of the clarinet and the flute. The physical proporties of the sound of these two instruments are very different... since you don't have to choose intervals... choose at least what is the best sounding way to make them sound as you want them to sound.

Search for these books :

http://www.youngcomposers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4486

There is awsome possibilities that you can use in there... use them wisely and effectively, but use them !

ALSO... since you seem to experiment structural difficulties with you piece... why not try organise your thoughts (and musical ideas) around a specific topic which can be related to the intervals you must you or not... like exploring more specifically one interval at the time (as Qccowboy's exercise of motive writing)... or register, type of instruments (do you have acces to bass clarinet, A clarinet, piccolo (Eb) clarinet... bass flute, piccolo, G flute ?!... just try to find a way to organize your thoughts that is clearer than just a vague ABA form or something like this. I'm of course not saying that it's wrong to do it... but since you got problems to structure... then you should sharpen your ideas to a more specific goal than just ABA !

Got ideas ??? Questions ?

I can't even believe when I read posts like this... is that what 'teaching composition' has become?

I suppose the best this kind of lesson can teach is developing the student's ingenuity.

Will it help you to write a well structured melody entirely suited to the composition at hand? Are you ok with 2 part harmony?

Here's an extrememly abridged background on me, so as to make clear where I am coming form:

I've only been composing for about two to three years, and with no instruction. In the past year and a half I taught myself music theory, just the basic stuff such as intervals, keys--the ground stucture. I have played around and studidied cadences and modes, but for the most part I don't think about them, I just use them. I've gone by ear doing so.... I kinda fit the "talented but no real training and it's new"--actually, I think my parents are kinda annoyed with themselves becasue there were lots of examples from when I was a kid that sould have screamed, "music lessons" but that's okay.

So, my songs are basic in a few senses: they generally have one meoldy with chords backing, and usually do something ABA ABAB or, well, it's very organized. They are supposedly good for what they are, but since I've only written for piano or full ensemble, the concept of two instumentalist blows my mind, along with only dissonent intervals, being that I am quite tonal.

I attached what I made up in about an hour the other day--the teacher liked it, I think it's okay. You can tell I'm new at it, for it's fast and using changes in meter often, so that the point of the song turns form tonal to rythemic concience. As far as two part harmony, I guess I really am not familiar with it....

Feel free to comment/rip up the thing I attached, I really am composing blindly, so your suggestions are welcome.

06-Correctly barred music thus far.MUS

That's cool... but this sound like something that is developing without knowing where it's coming from (I felt like being drop in it). So, that more a sketch to me than a 'beginning'. Of course there's a lot of stuff that is missing in the score (I might seem to talk only about that to most composers here, but that's because it's so important to write a perfectly clear score). But since it's not something finished, I'll state it so that you can add them.

You need to add :

- Ties for the phrasing of the instruments.

- Articulations inside or outside the phrasing.

- Revise all your silences, some are 'miswritten'.*

- Dynamics should always be indicated after a crescendo or a decrescendo.

* Oups... checking at the score a second time, it happens only once, other rythms are well written !

Otherwise... the short sequence you wrote is nicely done... you should analyse now what you've done and see the rythmic patterns, the broken chords (major mostly) you've used... I suggest that you note them on a sheet, make a record of all the diffents figures and harmonies. See the links between them and see the differences. Try to think of more materials of the same family that doesn't break the interval rule you had and try to expand them going from the motives that are the most alike to those that are the less alike. In short, play with the materials you already though of in order to create a maximum of related materials. Organize them and class them. (If you don't have fun doing this... well, don't do it... but I personnally have pleasure in doing this ! eheh)

When you have written lots of material, sort what sounds best and leave aside what's 'common' or 'too typical gestures'.

From there (well with experience eventually) you should try to be able to see a way to sort the choosen motives or materials or ideas into a general shape for a piece from the starting point up to the end. This way you'll be able to have a general idea of the whole piece... write it down, draw it... make fast gestures for fast stuff.... etc... do any trick you like or any trick that 'makes sense' for you in order to have the whollest idea of the piece that you can do.

Another tool that you must use at two instruments like this is the acoustic space. You use for now only the center-low register of the instruments... is there a way for you to be able to see how to manage that space... you have from middle E in bass key to the highests notes on a piano to potentially work with... use what you must, no more no less. If your ear doesn't need to hear very high pitched sounds, don't do it... but don't do it just because you don't know if you can do it - you understand the difference here ? The way you organize the acoustic space is as important - and part of - every other musical elements such as hamony and rythm.

BUT MOST OF ALL : I understand that this is an exercice... but try to always have an 'artistic leading idea' into which you can ground and connect all the ideas you have. First, it will help you to sort suitable materials from unsuitable ones and second it will give an inner breath to all the works you'll do. It doesn't have to be something others will see... but it must something that makes you enjoy the stuff you're writting. And this 'thing' goes beyond the 'tonal or not' talks... you have to take any means (tonals or not) to reach as best as you can the artistic goal you've chosen.

Is that helping a bit - it might be incoherent also... I need to sleep ! ehhe