Counterpoint - can counterline leap an interval of 4?

In counterpoint, are dissonant leaps (interval 4) allowed in a counterline? I thought the following are the rules:
1. Consonant leaps allowed.
2. Dissonant leaps not allowed. Only neighboring and passing dissonance allowed.

For example, in https://musescore.com/fourscoreandmore/i-annotations-4th >> bar 7, C leaps to F (interval of 4th). If dissonant leaps are not allowed, why then a leap of 4th is allowed?

If I remember correctly a 4th is only considered dissonant if it is the bottom-most interval in a sonority.  If however, as in this case, the 4th is the top-most interval, it is considered consonant.  Don't quote me on that LoL - it's been a while since I've done Fux counterpoint exercises.

44 minutes ago, PeterthePapercomPoser said:

If I remember correctly a 4th is only considered dissonant if it is the bottom-most interval in a sonority.  If however, as in this case, the 4th is the top-most interval, it is considered consonant.  Don't quote me on that LoL - it's been a while since I've done Fux counterpoint exercises.

 

I think it's for any outer voice interval considered dissonant and it's only allowed for inner voice - inner voice intervals as a consonance.

So for 4 part writing that would mean a fourth in any of these intervals is bad news:

• Soprano - Bass
• Alto - Bass
• Tenor - Bass
• Soprano - Alto
• Soprano - Tenor

And only this fourth is allowed as a consonance:

• Alto - Tenor

Don't quote me on that though.

Hi Jian,

I'd say that 4th is dissonant considered in an harmonic superposition rather than as an interval wether it be in the bass or in the soprano. 

In Fig.73 b. 7 it implies a chord of Fmajor  

b4-5 it's actually present in the Tenor D to G 

4th as a succession of two notes will be part of a lot of leaps inside a chord (from fifth to fundamental) or common chord succession (circle of fifth, cadences etc...)

You won't found, however, both notes of a 4th between to voices attacked at the same time. 4th can appear in certain circumstances from passing notes  and results from the incompletion of implied chords [A1].

Dissonnances will be aug4th dim5th, maj7, min7 (from memory I've never seen an interval above the octave in Baroque counterpoint or it would result from exeptionals circumstances). I'd say that, maybe not in Fux's rigorous counterpoint, aug5th is possible if resolved towards the interior of the interval [A2].  

I hope it is helpful ☔

10 hours ago, caters said:

I think it's for any outer voice interval considered dissonant and it's only allowed for inner voice - inner voice intervals as a consonance.

So for 4 part writing that would mean a fourth in any of these intervals is bad news:

• Soprano - Bass
• Alto - Bass
• Tenor - Bass
• Soprano - Alto
• Soprano - Tenor

And only this fourth is allowed as a consonance:

• Alto - Tenor

Don't quote me on that though.

 

Wrong. It's only considered dissonant if there's a 4th (+ optional octaves) between the bass and any other voice, i.e. if the triad is in 2nd inversion. Also, since OP's writing species counterpoint (i.e. 2 voices), it just means if there's a harmonic 4th somewhere. 

A 4th is considered a dissonant interval, especially in 2 part counterpoint. So a leap of a 4th is not allowed. 4ths become more usable in 3 or more part counterpoint when it comes to the spacing of voices when writing full chords.

I have to disagree. Fux himself uses leaps of fourth. You can easily find examples in his book. See for instance the example in G (or whatever the name of that mode is) in the chapter on 2 voice counterpoint; there's a descending fourth in measure  2. Actually, some of the canti firmi themselves have leaps of 4th. He compensates after it (not necessarily stepwise, he can compensate with an opposite leap). So I'd say melodic 4ths are definitely allowed by Fux.

It's important to remember though, that counterpoint is not only Fux's counterpoint (fortunately)  and there is some differences in the practice of counterpoint among composers. In Bach's counterpoint, leaps of 4th are also found (see for example measures 1,3,8 of Suite 3, menuet) . If the masters do it, you can go ahead 🙂