Sonata Nº1 & Nº2 for piano.

First of all, hi! I'm new to this forum and I already forgot how I got here, but glad to be nonetheless!

I tried to upload my two sonatas for piano in that software but the page gives me a 404 or takes forever to upload, sorry. I will upload the pdfs & mp3 files (computer tries, I am not good enough to play my own pieces sadly). Hope you find them decent enough, they are finished so I doubt I'll change anything but I am constantly trying to get some time and compose, thus any feedback will be appreciated for my future works whatever they be. For reference, they are my 42nd and 47th "minor works" (I label them like that when there are less than ~10 instruments).

Some text is in spanish but it's not important in order to play the piece most of the times. I blame myself for the lack of digitation, as I do think some parts would need it.

Without further ado, I leave you with them! Oh, and if anyone is eager to try it please let me know, I would love to hear a real person playing those.

Kind regards,
Daniel–Ømicrón.

Sonata No. 1:

First movement:  Allegretto 

Second movement: Moderato Spaventoso - Largo 

Third Movement: Lento Maestoso 

Sonata Nº2:

First movement: Adagio 

Second movement: Moderato Bellicoso

Third movement: Moderato

Fourth movement: Grave

Welcome to the forum (and visit our discord server!).

So, first I think I need to mention that posting two rather large pieces in one post like this and not splitting them into movements in the audio is cumbersome and I don't think many people will take the time to go through almost 40 minutes of music this way. Next time you want to post something over 10 minutes you should split it into parts, at least the audio, and maybe not post two long pieces in one thread, since one is already a lot of work to go through.

And second, I went through the first sonata only since I only have so much time right now.

On the first movement of the first sonata, I think there is just too much going on and I don't really see what is more important out of the various different themes you present one after the other. Like, you start with a pretty strong motive that goes on until measure 20, but then there's something totally different and by measure 41 you're introducing another motive you repeat, with a reprise of the first right following. Yet those 20 measures between 20 and 41 I don't feel have anything to do with either those themes.

I think this is a problem throughout the whole piece to be honest, there's a lot of "padding," in my opinion, that doesn't relate or have anything to do with anything. Another example is measure 95 and the whole bit with the ostinato figures. You're introducing brand new material mid-way through the movement and, even if you keep using it later, it's a lot already. Never mind it then follows into a dance-like bit in measure 112 that, again, has nothing to do with anything really except that it resolves into the second motive from measure 41.

As for the ending, I'm not sure if these movements are all attacca or what, but to me it felt that this first movement didn't really properly finish. I'm not saying you need a cadence, per se, but the first movement just suddenly ends.

The second movement is a little more consistent, but I still have a problem understanding what is more or less important. The beginning of it is more of an "effect", with the real melodies showing up in the "largo" at measure 179 (why not reset measures to 0 in each movement??), but then it's still a bunch of music that I don't see has anything strong enough that can stand out as any kind of unifying theme, so it again feels like filler. Sadly I found myself tuning out of the whole thing around this point since there's very little to focus on and instead it just feels like you're going on and on with new stuff you do once and then drop (like measures 189 to 194). In 207 you start somewhat developing the starting section and that's more interesting, but then again new material appears in measure 215, instead of developing what you already introduced in measure 179. It ends up being like a weird rondo of sorts.

The ending for this movement is a little better, there's a proper build up to the ending and I think it works fine. What's kind of strange is that instead of changing the character of the 3rd movement it the start of it feels like a coda of the 2nd. Which is why I'm asking if they're supposed to be played attacca.

Also, is the main theme the one that shows up in 261? Or is the one from earlier at the beginning? Not to keep hammering on the same point, but long forms live and die on prioritizing material. If it's just a barrage of nonstop new material then after a bit my brain just tunes out since I can't keep track of everything, or it feels like none of it really matters since you'll jump from thing to thing without any consequence or consistency. Just repeating some motives here and there isn't enough, there needs to be more proper development of established material, or it becomes a chore to hear (for me) since I have nothing to orient myself with. If it was just a series of short pieces that were like this, I think it wouldn't be such a problem, but because this is 25+ minutes of continuous music the problem is very much amplified.

And the 3rd movement's ending is also strange. You have a typical pause -> octave jump as the end, but the issue is that there is no build up to it, again, it feels like the whole thing just ends rather than going to the ending.

All in all, there's some interesting moments and some interesting harmonic choices, but making this "a sonata" seems like the wrong choice for a structure. I'd much rather have this split up into several short pieces where you can work out each individual moment in and focus your ideas than a huge 25+ minute piece that is unfocused and overly long without any real justification for its length.

Hi!
Thank you for the detailed feedback and the warm welcome. I will remember your advice of splitting the pieces into movements in case they be sonatas, sonatinas or other kinds of multi-movement pieces.

Let me tell you that despite I thank you for your words that lot of work wasn't needed. I just stumbled upon this forum and thought it was a good idea to see people's pieces like I often do in free-scores and I never wanted someone just spend a decent amount of time into analysing the score or the audio.

So well, let's begin:
– Yeah there might be a lot going on. Some people have also told me that is bad while others told me it's good, I believe there are reasons to think both ways. The structure is also kind of unusual, most likely because I wasn't thinking of adhering with rigour (or adhering at all) to the classical 3-movement sonata form. I however recognize an introduction motive, let's call it "I", and a finalizing motive "F" and both encase the various passages in that first movement. We can see there's indeed a lot of things (depends on the listener, that would be the padding as you say, or just more material that you can like or not) going on. If I were to put everything in order I would get something like "(3I)aFibIcfF(Iº)"; uh yes it seems like a mess, I would it call a mess but I have listened to it like a hundred of times and It's impossible to me to remove a single bar of that piece at this point (though I noticed what I'd call typos on bar 29 and on that passage overall lol).

I did not used caps for (a,i,c,f) because I don't think they be long enough to form a section by themselves (but well the line between a full section and a passage is kinda blurred to me) and "i" is chosen because it is developed directly from the motive I (IDEM "f"). 
In case anyone's curious: a = [25,41), i = [45,85), b = [85, 102) (it's 24 bars long but this notation does not account for the repetitions), c = [110, 128), f = [128, 158) (36 bars long) and I think I and F are easily identifiable. I cannot do anything but guess that because of this structure (that you have reasons to dislike and you could dislike even if you hadn't, of course) and the fact that it ends with a variation of the introduction motive you don't feel I conclude anything. I suppose we have a different feeling in that part, It is probably that I got used to it (?).

– Let's move to the second and third movement and I promise I won't be that dense. I leave them to the pianist's choice to play them attacca or not. There is something I do note too which is the lack of any unifying theme in each movement and this might be possibly my biggest failure in this piece on that perspective, since I relied too much into short motives instead of developing an entire coherent section out of a small set of them. Regarding the prioritization of some material over the rest, in this piece (as well as in some others) I just couldn't resist to keep adding it. I do like it for some reason. I cannot say I dislike my Sonata No. 1 at all, but I do understand why it can be a chore to listen to, sorry for that.

– Finally and just to clarify, the piece doesn't reach 25 min :P, and yes the bar counting not resetting is a choice of mine that I also understand it can be just disturbing for other people.

Again, really thank you for your time and effort and sorry for the delay. After some days passed and I didn't receive notifications from neither my post nor the few ones I reviewed or followed I thought this forum was dead, but I have been checking today and I couldn't be more glad to realize I was in such a mistake.

Kind regards,
Ømicrón.

It's interesting to put the chronology of your piece into the "About Me" Section. I take that idea and do one myself. It's also because of that I discover your first post here.

I only listened to your 1st Piano Sonata in C minor, so I will just review it first and review the second one later.

The main issue here the structural problem and coherency of the piece. I think the piece can be renamed as Sonata quasi una Fantasia to reduce the problem. I think the issue identified by @SSC fair, especially under the genre of sonata. I myself will think sonata as a narrative genre with underlying narrative structure. The appearance of motive should be incorporated to the structure to provide coherency, favourably in sonata form. Sometimes the reappearance of motive doesn't provide the coherency, either within itself, or within the interactions between themes and motives. But I also know that your style is to have the music's affect and emotion happen right at the moment, and I also love that too since that's what I cannot compose. That's why I think the title "Sonata quasi una Fantasia" more appropriate, instead of just an ordinary sonata.

On 3/13/2022 at 9:46 PM, SSC said:

why not reset measures to 0 in each movement??

I would also like the bar number reset during the beginnings of each movement. That will be more clear.

I think the motives of the first movement easily recognizable, and I enjoy how flowing it is, even though there's no clear direction, thus making it like whirlwind. I only find bar 107-108 quite awkward.

I love how dense the second movement is, and the opening wave is interesting.

For the third movement, that's my favourite movement. I think the up an octave sign of the treble clef not clear enough. I think some of them can have indications of up an octave lines  while others are not needed. But it is really cool, especially the cold and cruel  harmony. Is the theme in bar 261 borrowed from the second movement of Schubert's second piano trio? That sounds familiar for me, and I love it. I also love the use of left hand melody in the movement, so deep and introvert.

I will look through your second piano sonata once I have time and energy to do that!

Kind Regards!

Henry

On 11/25/2022 at 5:24 AM, Henry Ng said:

I take that idea and do one myself.

Hi Henry. Glad you found this useful. I believe it might be the best way we have to make our posts not getting lost in the constant flow of music that we and others create and put in common.

On 11/25/2022 at 5:24 AM, Henry Ng said:

I only listened to your 1st Piano Sonata in C minor, so I will just review it first and review the second one later.

This was my second "big" work and the first one I did for piano. I believe that some of the flaws that are present in the first sonata are not in the second, and I consider a mistake having uploaded both in the same posts. Thanks to SSC I continued dwelling in this forum and I did at least separate them in movements. In any case, I might possibly make another post in the future for the sonata Nº2 and leave this one for the first one, since the main criticism has been done to it. As we both know, works that exceed a certain duration are more difficult to review fully.

On 11/25/2022 at 5:24 AM, Henry Ng said:

But I also know that your style is to have the music's affect and emotion happen right at the moment

You might know or have an idea of what my actual style is more than myself, really, and that is because I rarely think too much about what my style is. I only compose for the sake of it and thus about ideas that come spontaneously (or not) and how to develop them further in the paper... Dunno, but I must also say that "emotion" in my music is something that I discover after writing it, not before. Not usually before, at least. But this is something I like because I "surprise" myself sometimes.

On 11/25/2022 at 5:24 AM, Henry Ng said:

Is the theme in bar 261 borrowed from the second movement of Schubert's second piano trio?

Years ago, I made an arrangement for accordions of Schubert's "Serenade", but apart from that I'm not really a connoisseur of his work. I have listened to some of his piano works but months after composing this so not really sure about how this particular piece sounds.
 

On 11/25/2022 at 5:24 AM, Henry Ng said:

I will look through your second piano sonata once I have time and energy to do that!

As always, please do whenever you have time, energy and be eager to do that. I lately have no time to even listen to short pieces here (I'm writing this past 0:00 in my country). In fact I'm even surprised you did look to my first post since pieces with months here rarely get any attention, so yes perhaps the idea of putting this in the "About me" works!

Again, my sincere thanks for your criticism and feedback Henry.

Kind regards,
Daniel–Ømicrón.

9 hours ago, Omicronrg9 said:

Glad you found this useful. I believe it might be the best way we have to make our posts not getting lost in the constant flow of music that we and others create and put in common.

I find it really useful. By making the list, I have a chance to know what I'm doing during these years and make me recognize some of the forgotten piece.

9 hours ago, Omicronrg9 said:

In any case, I might possibly make another post in the future for the sonata Nº2 and leave this one for the first one, since the main criticism has been done to it

Then I will wait for your individual posting of the sonata No. 2!

9 hours ago, Omicronrg9 said:

As we both know, works that exceed a certain duration are more difficult to review fully.

Haha🤣🤣🤣🤣! Maybe my case is even worse. I will for sure upload pieces by movements next time.

9 hours ago, Omicronrg9 said:

You might know or have an idea of what my actual style is more than myself, really, and that is because I rarely think too much about what my style is.

I don't know my style either. But I find that your pieces focus at the moment playing, not an overall structure, which is basically the opposite of mine.

9 hours ago, Omicronrg9 said:

I only compose for the sake of it and thus about ideas that come spontaneously (or not) and how to develop them further in the paper...

Mine is different. I compose because I already have something wanted to say. But I am the same as you that the piece comes out spontaneously, out of my control and surprises me everytime. Everytime I listen to good pieces, I can't believe the composer is me. I don't think I am capable of creating that.

9 hours ago, Omicronrg9 said:

Dunno, but I must also say that "emotion" in my music is something that I discover after writing it, not before. Not usually before, at least. But this is something I like because I "surprise" myself sometimes.

Me too! I remember clearly when I was composing the most tragic part of the fugue in my quintet, I was watching Olympic Games joyfully and happily. I only realize later that my music is so tragic and that makes me confused. Obviously the music speaks itself out.

9 hours ago, Omicronrg9 said:

As always, please do whenever you have time, energy and be eager to do that. I lately have no time to even listen to short pieces here (I'm writing this past 0:00 in my country).

That's really late! Hope you can recover your energy soon with exhausted works to do! It's early morning now for me.

9 hours ago, Omicronrg9 said:

In fact I'm even surprised you did look to my first post since pieces with months here rarely get any attention, so yes perhaps the idea of putting this in the "About me" works!

It really works! I would not have known that you have composed two sonatas if you hadn't put them to the "About Me" section!

Kind Regards!

Henry