Fugue in E minor No. 4

A fugue from around two years ago, polished and re-edited in recent days.

Very nice! I love it from M 26 all the way to the end, the sextuplets sound powerful (though the 10ths at that speed...Oof) as well as the octaves in the preceding measures. There are another jumps that I would find difficult (M41) as well, unless played with the left hand but that sound good, imo it does nothing but keep improving till the end.

Kind regards ^^!

Hi @Fugax Indoles. Nice fugue! I really like the subject and the countersubject. Both are very stylistic and have excellent features. The general musical grammar seems to be overall very good too (e.g. resolution of dissonances, treatment of melodic sevenths etc.). The following comments are made with the assumption that you aim to compose pastiche music in the Baroque style.

Let's dissect the rest of the fugue. Firstly, there seems to be a lack of subject entrances. Besides the exposition, I count a total of two further entries. One at the end in the tonic key, and another incomplete entrance in the rather strange key of D minor (which you turn to extremely often - why is that?). I feel like the piece could have done with a few more of those, particularly ones in major keys. Indeed you also seem to avoid major keys altogether here. Is this an artistic choice? 

Now, the episodes. I don't quite understand some of the writing here. For example, mm. 11-15: it's not a sequence, doesn't feature imitative counterpoint, and it does not play on any of the rich motives present in the subject and countersubject. So what purpose does it serve? Another example is the dominant pedal in the middle of the piece. It's very nicely written and very dramatic, but what is it preparing us for? The resolution in mm. 31 seems to lead us onto more free counterpoint whose purpose I cannot quite understand. One possibility to remedy this is by tying all the bass B's in mm. 26-29, such that the pedal fizzles out over time. The less attention the pedal draws, the less ingenious the resolution need be.

Another point I'd make is that I feel the texture is too dense, even for a (mostly) three-part fugue. It's not necessarily that the voices don't get breaks, it's more that we are hearing three-part chords all the time, at more or less quaver or crotchet speeds, where the underlying rhythm are dominated by semiquavers. The best way of fixing this is to make extensive use of hockets throughout (see BWV 888b - arguably the best example out there) and by using notes of long lengths. It should help you to relax the harmonic rhythm too in certain places. Large chords being played constantly is especially problematic for the keyboard, since its sound production places emphasis on any newly played notes, as opposed to, say, strings, where the volume can be kept constant when notes are changed.

This brings me to the final point - keep the instrumentation in mind when you compose! This fugue is not possible to be played on a keyboard. The rule is fairly simple: each hand can reach an octave and maybe also a second very very occasionally. Even if you have no intention for this fugue to be live performed, writing idiomatically for the instrument is still good for the soul. It forces you to consider how to recreate certain desired sonorities with a more limited set of tools at hand.

Edit: forgot to mention that a tonic answer is required here, not a real one.

On 6/14/2022 at 12:43 AM, muchen_ said:

Hi @Fugax Indoles. Nice fugue! I really like the subject and the countersubject. Both are very stylistic and have excellent features. The general musical grammar seems to be overall very good too (e.g. resolution of dissonances, treatment of melodic sevenths etc.). The following comments are made with the assumption that you aim to compose pastiche music in the Baroque style.

Let's dissect the rest of the fugue. Firstly, there seems to be a lack of subject entrances. Besides the exposition, I count a total of two further entries. One at the end in the tonic key, and another incomplete entrance in the rather strange key of D minor (which you turn to extremely often - why is that?). I feel like the piece could have done with a few more of those, particularly ones in major keys. Indeed you also seem to avoid major keys altogether here. Is this an artistic choice? 

Now, the episodes. I don't quite understand some of the writing here. For example, mm. 11-15: it's not a sequence, doesn't feature imitative counterpoint, and it does not play on any of the rich motives present in the subject and countersubject. So what purpose does it serve? Another example is the dominant pedal in the middle of the piece. It's very nicely written and very dramatic, but what is it preparing us for? The resolution in mm. 31 seems to lead us onto more free counterpoint whose purpose I cannot quite understand. One possibility to remedy this is by tying all the bass B's in mm. 26-29, such that the pedal fizzles out over time. The less attention the pedal draws, the less ingenious the resolution need be.

Another point I'd make is that I feel the texture is too dense, even for a (mostly) three-part fugue. It's not necessarily that the voices don't get breaks, it's more that we are hearing three-part chords all the time, at more or less quaver or crotchet speeds, where the underlying rhythm are dominated by semiquavers. The best way of fixing this is to make extensive use of hockets throughout (see BWV 888b - arguably the best example out there) and by using notes of long lengths. It should help you to relax the harmonic rhythm too in certain places. Large chords being played constantly is especially problematic for the keyboard, since its sound production places emphasis on any newly played notes, as opposed to, say, strings, where the volume can be kept constant when notes are changed.

This brings me to the final point - keep the instrumentation in mind when you compose! This fugue is not possible to be played on a keyboard. The rule is fairly simple: each hand can reach an octave and maybe also a second very very occasionally. Even if you have no intention for this fugue to be live performed, writing idiomatically for the instrument is still good for the soul. It forces you to consider how to recreate certain desired sonorities with a more limited set of tools at hand.

Edit: forgot to mention that a tonic answer is required here, not a real one.

 

Greetings @muchen_,

Even though I do have to thank you for all your minutious and detailed comments and objections in regards to my work, I think it begs clarification as to why my "fugues" aren't meant to be scholastic ones of said genre. That being said, my compositions are not intended to strictly resemble the works of Bach or to fall onto the category of "true", "school" fugues and assorted contrapunctal structures. Therefore, your puristic objections do nothing but reassert your misunderstanding of such realization or the mere absence thereof. As I said, thank you very much for your comments and advice however, it is forever welcome and appreciated.
Have a nice day.

1 hour ago, Fugax Contrapunctus said:

Greetings @muchen_,

Even though I do have to thank you for all your minutious and detailed comments and objections in regards to my work, I think it begs clarification as to why my "fugues" aren't meant to be scholastic ones of said genre. That being said, my compositions are not intended to strictly resemble the works of Bach or to fall onto the category of "true", "school" fugues and assorted contrapunctal structures. Therefore, your puristic objections do nothing but reassert your misunderstanding of such realization or the mere absence thereof. As I said, thank you very much for your comments and advice however, it is forever welcome and appreciated.
Have a nice day.

Two brief points I will make here:

1. If you compose in a well-established genre using well-established techniques, then your composition is by definition, a pastiche. I will treat it as such. You, of course, have the artistic licence to break away from as much of the formal guidelines as you wish (adding your own touch to the music). What I perceive here is not such an attempt. It's rather a lack of understanding of these guidelines.

2. I'll have a go at translating your comment, because what you have said is quite hard to understand: "Thanks, but no thanks". I'm all happy to have healthy discussions if you are willing to defend your work. It's the reason why I posed my questions. If this is your line of reasoning though, then I will leave reviews of your work to others, since whatever I say will fall on deaf ears.

On 6/17/2022 at 2:16 PM, muchen_ said:

Two brief points I will make here:

1. If you compose in a well-established genre using well-established techniques, then your composition is by definition, a pastiche. I will treat it as such. You, of course, have the artistic licence to break away from as much of the formal guidelines as you wish (adding your own touch to the music). What I perceive here is not such an attempt. It's rather a lack of understanding of these guidelines.

2. I'll have a go at translating your comment, because what you have said is quite hard to understand: "Thanks, but no thanks". I'm all happy to have healthy discussions if you are willing to defend your work. It's the reason why I posed my questions. If this is your line of reasoning though, then I will leave reviews of your work to others, since whatever I say will fall on deaf ears.

 

As for point one, I'm inclined towards clarifying that you're wrong. I indulge in deviating from conventional styles and forms in as much as "adding my touch to the music", if you will. Your hypothesis about my supposed lack of understanding is short of unfounded.

In regards to point two, I will say it loud and clear: the only reason I'm not willing to defend my composition from your puristic objections is because my work needs no defense. To the very least, not from your comments. That one you posted on my Fugue in G minor No. 11 in my YouTube channel had me close to actually taking my life, mind you. The "Late April Fools Day" buffoonery was a later reworking not to show my entire audience how mentally unstable I really am. So, to sum up, I will leave an attachment of the reply I gave to said comment for everyone in this forum to see and judge.

Have a nice day.

8 hours ago, Fugax Contrapunctus said:

That one you posted on my Fugue in G minor No. 11 in my YouTube channel had me close to actually taking my life, mind you.

This one?

I'm sorry for the comment. I hope you're feeling better now.