Multi-Movement Adventure Music

The three movements of this piece are subtitled:

I - Melting Glacier
II - The Veldt
III - Mountain Climb

The instrumentation is for string orchestra with 2 Flutes, 2 Horns in F, Glockenspiel, Vibraphone, Marimba, and Tambourine.  I used Musescore since I don't yet have any Vibraphone VST's.  Let me know what you think.  I tried to create some thematic associations between movements.  Thanks for listening and for any critiques, suggestions or observations that you may have!

Hi Peter,

I just took notes as I was listening, so I apologize if these comments seem poorly organized.

I think your texture could perhaps be more varied. You maintain a tutti texture the whole time. The suite is only five minutes long so it doesn't get tiresome, but varying the thickness would provide more interest (to me).

I'm curious; how did you choose names for each of the pieces?

The violas will hate you for their part in Melting Glacier. Just kidding 😉. BUT--see if you can't maintain your balanced texture whilst making the parts more engaging. The musicians that perform your music will love you for it. 

The Veldt was my favorite movement. Not only did you redeem yourself for the violas, but the thematic material was also the most engaging for me. Really well done here!

In Mountain Climb, you might consider notating the time signature as 3 + 2 + 3 / 8 with a switch to 4/4 when the rhythm construction changes. The length of the measure won't change, but the meter you're going for will be clearer to the score-reader.

With the horns, it seems like this could be better to score for one horn and one trombone/tuba/euphonium, depending on the desired timbre. Going from what I’ve read in orchestration textbooks (😂), the low horn has a very exhausting part that might be much more effective on a lower-pitched brass instrument. Regardless of how you do that, make sure you make it clear which player is playing at what time (you know, with 1, 2, or a2). Also: don't forget that wind instruments need to breathe!

I've never touched a marimba, so I could be totally wrong here, but the places where you have a tremolo and a melody seem like they could be on the too-challenging side, even with four mallets.

In terms of engraving, the score was really easy to follow; nice job with that. Do watch out when you're notating two instruments on one staff. Sometimes there were a few collisions (mostly in the horns). 

Overall, I really enjoyed the suite! It had a lot of charm and freshness that was helped along by the thematic consistency. I have one overarching comment for you that I touched on earlier: the texture, while balanced and put together well doesn't really vary, even from piece to piece in the suite. You do a good job of making up for that with thematic, rhythmic, and motivic interest, but re-orchestrating a little bit wouldn't hurt. Don't just vary the orchestration while maintaining tutti, though. Maybe you could give out a few solos, or give the melody to a lower instrument for a bit. A little more variance in terms of texture would go a long way towards improving this piece. 

I really hope that these comments didn't come off as too harsh. You did a really nice job with this suite and I look forward to seeing more of your work in this genre!

Melting glacier: well I'm not sure if it's melting but it'd be difficult to me not to associate vibraphone with ice for some reason. It feels to me like a trip into a very cold place.  The first 5-10 bars sound very epic (basically the first phrase of the piece) and I would consider adding some bass when you arrive to that section again.

The veldt: still beautiful, but still cold, though it feels to me that the trip led me to a populated place inside that cold region. It was shorter than I expected but I liked it anyway and the transition II-III was nice, very nice indeed.

Mountain climb: this is another story. I love its beginning, and I agree with JWNewton regarding the time signature. The passages that come after that make me feel like the climbing became more difficult because of some blizzard. 

In summary, another very nice piece you made. The title of the whole set of movements seems to fit perfectly with what you made me imagine while listening to them. Thank you, as always.

Kind regards!

Hello @JWNewton and @Omicronrg9!  Thanks for your detailed responses!

On 7/12/2022 at 3:13 PM, JWNewton said:

I think your texture could perhaps be more varied. You maintain a tutti texture the whole time.

Maybe that's true that I use a tutti texture for most of the time through the Veldt movement but there are large swaths of music in Melting Glacier and Mountain Climb where all the instruments drop out except for the strings.

On 7/12/2022 at 3:13 PM, JWNewton said:

I'm curious; how did you choose names for each of the pieces?

I love old style RPG's (role playing games) like the Final Fantasy's and especially Chrono Trigger and I plan on making my own music and story based RPG someday once I actually figure out what I want it to be about.

On 7/12/2022 at 3:13 PM, JWNewton said:

The Veldt was my favorite movement. Not only did you redeem yourself for the violas, but the thematic material was also the most engaging for me. Really well done here!

Thanks!  Since it's a bit up tempo in comparison to the other movements it lasts scarcely a minute.  I'm curious - how did you perceive the transition into this movement?  I kinda tried to foreshadow the key change to Bb minor with the ending chord of Melting Glacier but I'm not sure if that really worked.

On 7/12/2022 at 3:13 PM, JWNewton said:

In Mountain Climb, you might consider notating the time signature as 3 + 2 + 3 / 8 with a switch to 4/4 when the rhythm construction changes. The length of the measure won't change, but the meter you're going for will be clearer to the score-reader

That's a good point but I'm not sure if I actually have this capability in Musescore.  I would probably keep the meter at 4/4 for the instruments playing the melodic line while doing the composite meter you suggested for the appropriate instruments.

On 7/12/2022 at 3:13 PM, JWNewton said:

With the horns, it seems like this could be better to score for one horn and one trombone/tuba/euphonium, depending on the desired timbre. Going from what I’ve read in orchestration textbooks (😂), the low horn has a very exhausting part that might be much more effective on a lower-pitched brass instrument. Regardless of how you do that, make sure you make it clear which player is playing at what time (you know, with 1, 2, or a2).

Being a horn player myself, I think it's just a matter of giving the low horn part to an accomplished player or maybe someone who is specialized in the low register.  Although having a euphonium play that part is quite an attractive alternative if I ever rescore this.  Also, I guess I should have provided part markings (like I did in the flute parts) but instead settled on indicating the 1st and 2nd horns through upward and downward facing stems respectively.

On 7/12/2022 at 3:13 PM, JWNewton said:

I've never touched a marimba, so I could be totally wrong here, but the places where you have a tremolo and a melody seem like they could be on the too-challenging side, even with four mallets

There are some challenging sections in the marimba part especially when the left hand doing a tremolo crosses the right hand.  But the tremolo itself in a real performance would not be expected to be performed metronomically but at a speed that's comfortable/ reasonable for the player.

On 7/13/2022 at 3:21 PM, Omicronrg9 said:

Melting glacier: well I'm not sure if it's melting but it'd be difficult to me not to associate vibraphone with ice for some reason

The marimba ostinati and vibraphone part especially, at least for me, portray the rivulets of icy water trickling down through the glacier as it melts.

On 7/13/2022 at 3:21 PM, Omicronrg9 said:

The first 5-10 bars sound very epic (basically the first phrase of the piece) and I would consider adding some bass when you arrive to that section

Thanks!  Actually the contrabasses come in on the pick-ups to measure 5 along with the entrance of all the pitched percussion. 

On 7/13/2022 at 3:21 PM, Omicronrg9 said:

The veldt: still beautiful, but still cold, though it feels to me that the trip led me to a populated place inside that cold region. It was shorter than I expected but I liked it anyway and the transition II-III was nice, very nice indeed

Thanks!  I'd also like to ask you about the transition I-II.  Did the chord in Melting Glacier adequately foreshadow the change of key in The Veldt?

On 7/13/2022 at 3:21 PM, Omicronrg9 said:

In summary, another very nice piece you made. The title of the whole set of movements seems to fit perfectly with what you made me imagine while listening to them. Thank you, as always

Thanks again for both of your reviews!  Your detailed and informed comments are much appreciated! 

Peter

Great music. I also think the texture is always a bit dense, but ok that's. how you wanted it.

In terms of style, this very much fits the Peter whose music I know! I enjoyed the counterpoint, the unconventional harmonies, and the way each movement fit the mood you were (assumingly) going for. Nice job!

I have to echo Luis and Jacob, though; the texture is dense and does not vary enough from movement to movement. This appears to be a characteristic of your music in general, so I'm not sure that it's something you care to address. Nothing wrong with that, of course! I just wonder how your music would sound if you gave it spaces of rest. In this work, for example, you do give instrument groups a rest from time to time, but the music never, ever stops except between movements. The percussion instruments in particular are relentless once they get started.

The score is a bit problematic but I recognize this is an issue with MuseScore and not your skills as an engraver. Jacob made some great pointers which I won't reiterate here.

Overall, an enjoyable piece. I'm glad you took the time to post this! Keep up the good work!

On 7/16/2022 at 6:12 AM, PeterthePapercomPoser said:

That's a good point but I'm not sure if I actually have this capability in Musescore.  I would probably keep the meter at 4/4 for the instruments playing the melodic line while doing the composite meter you suggested for the appropriate instruments.

You can: IMG

Right click the time signature and there you will see a properties tab. You can group figures however you want and change how the time signature looks.

On 7/16/2022 at 6:12 AM, PeterthePapercomPoser said:

Thanks!  I'd also like to ask you about the transition I-II.  Did the chord in Melting Glacier adequately foreshadow the change of key in The Veldt?

Pretty much I'd say. But that's just my opinion.

Kind regards!!

Hello!

Thank you yet again for listening to my music. I really like the back and forth we have and it is a big reason why I am always excited when I finish a new work. I do not really like listening to music and do not do it too much on my own time, so this is a way for me to force myself to do some much needed listening. 

Do you have any interest in using any other notation programs? If you do, I have a copy of Noteperformer I can give you. I really do not like the midi used in most notation programs, and even when I used musescore I tried to find sound packs for the best audio possible.

Time for my actual response:

This really sounds familiar to some type of game's music I have played before. I cannot decide if it is Castlevania or something else. But, this is one place I really like the midi, is because this sounds like video game music that accompanies an area in the background. If that is what you were going for, as it kinda seems like it from the naming scheme (with each title being what you are trying to make the music sound like), then a lot of anything I have to say disappears.

I think I read someone say above that the texture stays too full/same-y, and I definitely agree with that. It is fun to explore the instrumentation you choose! But, I think part of that problem is that every instrument sounds exactlythefuckingsamebecauseitismusescoremidi, so that does not help. If you exclude the audio and look at the score, the fact that nearly every instrument is playing at all times (and even in the same ranges) shows there is not a lot of variety there. In the context of this being a background song for a game, I do not think that matters. It creates a certain lulling atmosphere and could repeat endlessly. I like it. Otherwise, just to use what I wrote as an example, my band piece is something where I am trying to make it sound different quite often. Its intent is not to be what your music here is.

I think from all of your repeats and vibes in each mini-movements, you definitely wanted this to just be an atmospheric teaser, in a sense. Not explore too in depth for every single way you can bend the ideas you have here, but just create a phrase with slight variations. Idk. It really gives me nostalgia to playing GBA/DS Castlevania games, though. Maybe even Final Fantasy 6!

It might be the Stravinskian part of me, but in the last movement I hate how it just ends. It feels a little tense for like three repeat sections before the end, and I really want a sudden loud burst of craziness! I forget the name, but the 2nd to last movement (before Sacrificial Dance) in the Rite of Spring has exactly what I am talking about. You will know if you check it out.

Thanks for the cool listen. I played it twice. 

Best,

Evan Erickson

You know, every person seemed to mention a thick texture in this. Don't get me wrong, I think it is very thick throughout as well too. Plus, I'm usually the one to say that to you. 

However...

I think it works, and it's actually a good thing. I think I get it now. After playing through Chrono Trigger (yes, I know I'm near the end and it's on my to do list :D), I think it's beneficial to have a thick texture throughout. I'm assuming these movements are meant to be looped, like they would in an RPG. It's a good thing it's a thick texture because of all the stupid rats and monsters fighting you all the time. Those games usually go to some kind of battle music, and the stage music is constantly interrupted. When the battle is over, you can resume right where you left off, in the middle of your adventure, jumping right back into the "exciting" moments of the music without having to wait for the 2 minute oboe solo introduction or whatever.

I think the other reviewers are listening purely based on the music, and they're right for that reason of listening. But imagining this in a video game, I wouldn't change the thick textures at all. I think it's clever and smart to have all the instruments going with it possibly being interrupted every 20 seconds because of battles and things like that. Plus, even if it's not being interrupted, I felt very engaged in the story of Chrono Trigger, and I'm sure that was a huge inspiration for your work in video game music, possibly being your main inspiration. Chrono Trigger's music is just like this, and it never seemed annoying or needing some variance in texture.

Your musical ideas are very good in this, I hate how I missed this one. I feel like your music comes alive when you have a setting in mind, instead of the theme and variations style or dense counterpoint styles that I know you also pursue. I think your ideas and knowledge as a composer flourishes in this style, and it's something I look forward to hearing you continue to write for in the future. Even if it's just hypothetical scenes and scenarios, I believe you have a talent for this type of writing. 

Some of the samples were a bit distracting, but I don't hold that against you. In terms of musicality and quality of writing, this is top notch, and deserves a bit more attention in my point of view.  I know I've mentioned this before, but I love how you end your pieces. You always find some chord I never would have thought of, and it makes sense that it would be a transition back to the beginning if it were looped. 

I'd recommend posting three separate files for the different movements, no matter how short they are. There were plenty of times I wanted to switch back and forth while listening and commenting, and it would have been easier to do so with separate movements posted individually. 

I'm curious how you came up with your orchestration? It seems like a unique ensemble, and you do a wonderful job of exploiting the various colors of the different instruments throughout. I really like the marimba and glockenspiel, it added a lot to the arpeggio textures and the low deep strings, my favorite elements in this. In fact, all the Nordic or arctic thematic material needed those deep low notes, it made me think of Sibelius and how he was able to really paint a picture in my head. And to think you painted pictures with midi sounds...lol!

I can't really decide on favorite movements, they all had their place. Even though the thickness of the entire suite was prevalent throughout, I think you did a good gob at giving each movement it's own character. And hearing the tambourine instantly gave me medieval or renaissance vibes (or perhaps if the fair were held in 10,000 B.C. :D)

All in all, great job Peter! I love this one, this is by far one of my favorites from you. 

First, I love these movements! All 3 of them.

I think you did a really great job capturing that snowy scene. That's the crucial thing. The use of vibraphone and marimba for snowy effect, glockenspiel for the cool and icy effect, whirlwind accompaniment in all 3 movements, and catchy melody in all 3 of them. 

I agree the 3 movements are similar. I agree the viola will really be sad in the 1st and 3rd movement. I agree that the thick texture doesn't change. If that's concert piece, these can be seen as faults. But for an incindental music, no! The effect is the foremost thing. Also the length of the pieces are not long. If it's intended to be longer concert piece, than of course there should be timberal and colour change. But for a functional short piece, that will be perfectly fine! Also, violists are always sad, LOL!

I think a bassoon can be added in place where it's too low and loud for horn to do so. Bit that's my personal preference.

I do not mention harmony and counterpoint because yours is always skillful amd attain great effect.

Overall a great music sample for adventure games!

Henry