The Trail of a Gypsy

About time I upload something. Here's a little romanticism for you. Hope you all enjoy, and as always, any sort of comments are welcome. I'd especially like to hear your thoughts on enharmonics.

Special thanks to PeterthePapercomPoser for your advice with this one. 

the first 11 seconds sounds so familiar. this piece has some interesting harmonic changes and a beautiful melody. the part at 74 was an interesting change of texture, I like how in this spot and in others you weren’t afraid to detract from romanticism, that part sounds almost “pop-y,” kinda reminds me of video game music 

15 hours ago, Thatguy v2.0 said:

Special thanks to PeterthePapercomPoser for your advice with this one. 

You're welcome!

15 hours ago, Thatguy v2.0 said:

I'd especially like to hear your thoughts on enharmonics

I can see why you asked about enharmonics on this given the gypsy theme.  I didn't actually check if you used any gypsy scales in this piece but it certainly sounds exotic.  I love the improvisatory character of many sections of this including the heavily syncopated parts as well as the fioraturas in the cadenza-like parts.  I think varying the tempo during those parts could have given them an added level of humanization although nothing can replace an actual performance which this piece could benefit greatly from (and it certainly deserves one).  But you do vary the tempo in many other places so that's a welcome feature.  I think spelling the Fb7 chords with a D natural was totally appropriate when resolving to Eb minor especially given the gypsy influence in this piece, which,  without knowing what specific gypsy scales you might have used or not, is fitting given that they're never diatonic.  Actually - I just looked and it looks like you might be using one of two possible gypsy scales - the double harmonic scale or the phrygian dominant scale - they both have that b2nd degree.  Although  it doesn't sound like you limit yourself to any particular scale at all which I love since it results in always fresh and unexpected harmony. 

I love the beginning - it sounds so seductive - like something out of a dream.  I like also how you follow your own advice that you often give me which is to give your music lots of room and space to breathe which you do beautifully.

I do have to give you props for how well crafted your fioraturas are.  I also love your judicious use of the damper pedal also sometimes resorting to a dryer sound during the syncopated parts.

Another really dynamic aspect of this piece is that it's  through-composed.  All it's parts clearly belong together however and have a high level of thematic unity despite much variety.

Great job and keep up the good work!  I am already addicted to this piece so thanks for sharing!

In fact I love the end too!  You can hear it coming from a mile away but then you have this long decrescendo which just sucks you in.  It's like the most nonchalant ending, I love it!  I'm telling you - this piece will live in (in)famy on here!  Superb!

On 7/23/2022 at 1:41 PM, jejrekmek said:

this piece has some interesting harmonic changes and a beautiful melody.

The overall goal of this was to write a decent melody. It's always been a weak spot of mine, as I usually stuck to motivic and rhythmic development. I'm glad you found this enjoyable, thanks for listening!

On 7/23/2022 at 4:35 PM, PeterthePapercomPoser said:

I can see why you asked about enharmonics on this given the gypsy theme.  I didn't actually check if you used any gypsy scales in this piece but it certainly sounds exotic.  I love the improvisatory character of many sections of this including the heavily syncopated parts as well as the fioraturas in the cadenza-like parts.  I think varying the tempo during those parts could have given them an added level of humanization although nothing can replace an actual performance which this piece could benefit greatly from (and it certainly deserves one).  But you do vary the tempo in many other places so that's a welcome feature.  I think spelling the Fb7 chords with a D natural was totally appropriate when resolving to Eb minor especially given the gypsy influence in this piece, which,  without knowing what specific gypsy scales you might have used or not, is fitting given that they're never diatonic.  Actually - I just looked and it looks like you might be using one of two possible gypsy scales - the double harmonic scale or the phrygian dominant scale - they both have that b2nd degree.  Although  it doesn't sound like you limit yourself to any particular scale at all which I love since it results in always fresh and unexpected harmony. 

You're right, I didn't adhere to a specific scale in this, but instead went with the chords. Not sure if that's good or bad, maybe it's a jazz way of looking at things. This piece actually started over an improvisation that I'd always do over the A section chords, and eventually lead to writing a piece with it. If you're interested, I mainly stuck to the Ebm/Gb scale, but the Ebb7+5 I used whole tone, and the Dbbdim7 I used the dim. scale. 

I'm glad you dug the fioraituras, they were a first for me. You're right, I was thinking Bb phrygian dominant over that. It's a easy cool trick to use that scale over the the V chord in minor, maybe adding touches of that A nat. as a color note on the Bb turns. 

Those sections took me the longest to write, as I went through countless failed attempts at trying to notate it. I tried doing an abnormal measure where you can just fit all the notes in with a smaller notehead size, but ultimately it never panned out. I was originally going to just record myself playing those sections, because you're right; they're not supposed to be all even. I liked the accelerandos, but ultimately that's a gift for the performer to play as they wish. Any of the sections I wrote expressivo, I wanted the performer to have control over tempo. 

On 7/23/2022 at 4:35 PM, PeterthePapercomPoser said:

I love the beginning - it sounds so seductive - like something out of a dream.  I like also how you follow your own advice that you often give me which is to give your music lots of room and space to breathe which you do beautifully.

I do have to give you props for how well crafted your fioraturas are.  I also love your judicious use of the damper pedal also sometimes resorting to a dryer sound during the syncopated parts.

Another really dynamic aspect of this piece is that it's  through-composed.  All it's parts clearly belong together however and have a high level of thematic unity despite much variety.

Great job and keep up the good work!  I am already addicted to this piece so thanks for sharing!

You're too kind, thanks for the encouraging words. I have to admit, I've done so much "non-concert hall" music over that last few years that I was beginning to feel like I didn't have this style of music in me anymore. It was fun to write for piano again, I'll try to keep posting this stuff. Hell, I might even learn it to tempo at some point and record it myself. I'm really glad you enjoyed it, and thanks again for the help with notating! Next time I'll save myself some trouble and write in C lol.

Magnificent beginning. The left hand never gets boring despite its monotony on the rhythm, possibly because the harmony you used is more than enough to keep me paying attention.

The cadenza-like section M(67-71) sounds very good but I did not expect that it would precede the section that came. I'm not too much convinced about it. It sounds good but seems a little off from the ambient you were creating a few seconds ago, though it rapidly embeds you in it. Kinda big jumps there on M90-97 by the way, oof. The rhythm feels kind of jazzistic (?).

The transition or small section that you make to go to 132 is one of my favourite parts. I have a liking for C#- most probably. M(132-162) has a lot of things. It sounds like ragtime up to 140. then turns into a more ambiguous feeling and ends in another passage that seems to have stains of almost everything you developed before.

Regarding M175-End I have no complains, but I think the digital interpretation did not make justice to that part.

I enjoyed it all. Overall a good and fresh piece that as Peter said, would really benefit a lot from a human interpretation.

Kind regards!

On 7/25/2022 at 3:54 AM, Omicronrg9 said:

The cadenza-like section M(67-71) sounds very good but I did not expect that it would precede the section that came. I'm not too much convinced about it. It sounds good but seems a little off from the ambient you were creating a few seconds ago, though it rapidly embeds you in it. Kinda big jumps there on M90-97 by the way, oof. The rhythm feels kind of jazzistic (?).

Hey man, thanks for checking out my piece. I appreciate the detailed honest review. I went back and forth with the form, and also had a version where the mood never got jaunty and bouncy. For future pieces, I might try and develop the melody further without changing the overall texture like I did, but I dunno I felt like the slow nocturne-type feel was getting boring. I wanted it to spring to life there.

Thanks again!

P.S. I checked out your youtube channel, you play a wicked accordian. Do you write for it? Maybe I missed it, but I only saw the one video

On 7/27/2022 at 7:59 AM, Thatguy v2.0 said:

Hey man, thanks for checking out my piece. I appreciate the detailed honest review. I went back and forth with the form, and also had a version where the mood never got jaunty and bouncy. For future pieces, I might try and develop the melody further without changing the overall texture like I did, but I dunno I felt like the slow nocturne-type feel was getting boring. I wanted it to spring to life there.

Whatever's fine to you, I enjoyed it anyways :).

On 7/27/2022 at 7:59 AM, Thatguy v2.0 said:

P.S. I checked out your youtube channel, you play a wicked accordian. Do you write for it? Maybe I missed it, but I only saw the one video

I'm mainly an accordionist and I did write pieces for accordion (and more instruments + accordion) but some of them are quite old and I never thought of uploading them. Apart from that youtube hid a video of myself playing Hungarian Dance No.5 in the accordion despite Brahms is well, long long dead and those pieces have more than 120 years.

I'm stuck in the 22nd nocturne. After I finish the last one (23rd) I want to compose a set of sonatinas-bagatellas-dunno yet for accordion and play them myself. Who knows how that'll end lol. Thank you for checking it out!!

This is gorgeous! The chord progressions and melodic shaping at the beginning remind me of Barber's Nocturne and his Piano Sonata, both pieces I love (especially the Nocturne). Were you inspired by him, by any chance?

Great beginning! It really sets the mood to be exotic especially in the extoic E flat minor.

Good harmonic colour for the theme I! I especially like the use of double flat in bar 14 and other simialr places. It really gives some chilling apperance to the performer. I remember Chopin in his op. 25 no.10 etude write a German sixth chord with all the double sharps. The visual certainly affect how performers interpret it. As @Omicronrg9 said, the harmonic colour is so varied that makea the seemingly common left figuration uncommon.

For the cadenza in bar 66-71, I find it somewhat too showy, maybe because it's played by a program! With added expression by real performers that will be absolutely fine.

I love the change of rhythm in bar 74. It certainly depicts how fleeing and free the gypsy is rhythmically, after developing it harmonically. I don't feel it detached here since the harmonycis maintained tightly. Good job here!

I love the accelarando to bar 119. It gives me the feeling that the Gypsy is escaping from something. He seems to succeed with light hearted rhythm and melody in bar 132 but later found it a trap, and great climax in bar 155-158! The section started at b. 162 gives a firm feeling that escape is futile. The materials reappear in a developed and more firmed manner. And the ending is so great! I love that falling contour with that harmonic colour. 

Overall a great character piece! Exotic and exciting with humourous touches too! Very well done!

Henry

19 hours ago, MissCello said:

This is gorgeous! The chord progressions and melodic shaping at the beginning remind me of Barber's Nocturne and his Piano Sonata, both pieces I love (especially the Nocturne). Were you inspired by him, by any chance?

Hey thanks! I haven't heard these before, but there's very little from Barber that I don't like. I see two nocturnes by him, which one were you talking about? I'm assuming D# with the same tonal center? Anyways, thanks again for checking this out!

17 hours ago, Henry Ng said:

Good harmonic colour for the theme I! I especially like the use of double flat in bar 14 and other simialr places. It really gives some chilling apperance to the performer. I remember Chopin in his op. 25 no.10 etude write a German sixth chord with all the double sharps.

Hi there Henry

Yeah, I debated naming the chords in this, but the double flats made sense to be for the chords from a compositional point of view, yet I toyed with the idea of just making it more plain to the performer. I'm not sure which is "correct", but in the end I just tried to make it make sense compositionally. 

17 hours ago, Henry Ng said:

I love the change of rhythm in bar 74. It certainly depicts how fleeing and free the gypsy is rhythmically, after developing it harmonically. I don't feel it detached here since the harmonycis maintained tightly. Good job here!

I love the accelarando to bar 119. It gives me the feeling that the Gypsy is escaping from something. He seems to succeed with light hearted rhythm and melody in bar 132 but later found it a trap, and great climax in bar 155-158! The section started at b. 162 gives a firm feeling that escape is futile. The materials reappear in a developed and more firmed manner. And the ending is so great! I love that falling contour with that harmonic colour. 

I like that you took the gypsy as a character going through a journey. I named it this because, well, I didn't really feel like I had a prompt to write about, more just absolute music and what I was feeling...or something like that. I feel like my life is like that of a gypsy sometimes...when I'm performing, I sometimes don't know where I'll be sleeping, or the level of comfort I'll have even when I do. This is an autobiographical piece, written about me and my journeys playing gigs in places all over Colorado. Thanks for checking it out!

21 minutes ago, Thatguy v2.0 said:

Hey thanks! I haven't heard these before, but there's very little from Barber that I don't like. I see two nocturnes by him, which one were you talking about? I'm assuming D# with the same tonal center? Anyways, thanks again for checking this out!

 

Hello! I was only aware of his Op. 33 Nocturne, but I am now listening to the other that you mentioned, the D# -- op. 13 -- and I also hear a little of that sound in your piece. It was a pleasure!

i want to quote that Chopin op.25 no.10 example:

Functionally it's a German sixth chord, but viewing the score it's so scary and it definitely reminds pianists to play ferociously. Therefore I love your spelling! (Update on 17/12: It's NOT a Ger6 chord! Pls see later posts!)

On 12/16/2022 at 12:54 PM, Thatguy v2.0 said:

I like that you took the gypsy as a character going through a journey. I named it this because, well, I didn't really feel like I had a prompt to write about, more just absolute music and what I was feeling...or something like that. I feel like my life is like that of a gypsy sometimes...when I'm performing, I sometimes don't know where I'll be sleeping, or the level of comfort I'll have even when I do. This is an autobiographical piece, written about me and my journeys playing gigs in places all over Colorado. Thanks for checking it out!

i think you have to follow the intention of the composer first in order to get into the music more quickly. Before having any personal opinion, it's much more important what the composer wants to say and how s/he says it. My compositional approach is utterly different from yours, Vince! I almost only compose absolute music and I don't want a certain idea to direct the music, rather the music should take lead. I do have a general plan, but the details are often hidden to be disclosed. I am fascinated by music sometimes . How can I compose that? That must be composed by someone else and not me! 

I feel that gyspy feeling in it, no wonder. It's always great to include autobiographical element in our works. That makes it more honest and natural, instead artificial work and product. I will keep check out your or Daniel's or Peter's piece if I have time!

Henry

19 hours ago, Henry Ng said:

i want to quote that Chopin op.25 no.10 example:

Functionally it's a German sixth chord, but viewing the score it's so scary and it definitely reminds pianists to play ferociously. Therefore I love your spelling!

Ok, so I dove into this a bit. I checked 2 online sources of the score and they're spelled with naturals (G7/F). My copy I have has it spelled like you do.

I've always sucked at the aug6 chords, can you maybe help me understand this one? It looks like the 7th goes down to D# in going to the next chord, giving it a secondary dominant type of feel since it goes to B#/D#. Or it is because it eventually leads to the F#7 chord? I'm guessing this is what you're referring to, and I'm generally curious on this one. I'd hope to better understand the different aug6th chords so I can use them a bit lol.

I like getting into stuff like this, especially when resolving chords in unexpected ways. I once wrote a piece where I wanted to reach the minor 9th of an E7b9 chord going upward towards it, to where it felt like home haha

1 hour ago, Thatguy v2.0 said:

Ok, so I dove into this a bit. I checked 2 online sources of the score and they're spelled with naturals (G7/F). My copy I have has it spelled like you do.

This spelling is what Chopin intended. It's marked so in the authoritative National Chopin edition. The edition even has a sacarstic comnent on those edition with a G7/F marking.

1 hour ago, Thatguy v2.0 said:

I've always sucked at the aug6 chords, can you maybe help me understand this one? It looks like the 7th goes down to D# in going to the next chord, giving it a secondary dominant type of feel since it goes to B#/D#. Or it is because it eventually leads to the F#7 chord? I'm guessing this is what you're referring to, and I'm generally curious on this one. I'd hope to better understand the different aug6th chords so I can use them a bit lol.

This example is a special case. There are 3 types of aug 6 chord, Italian, French and German. For a german 6th chord is is usually marked G, B, D, E#. Italian one is G, B, E#, and French one is G, B, C# and E#. An aug 6th chord is a predominant chord, so it normally resolve directly to a dominant chord, but for a German 6th chord is not the case: There will be a parallel 5th. G, B, D, E# resolve to F#, A#, C#, F#, there is a parallel 5th between G-D and F#-C#. Brahms even wrote an essay concering that parallel fifth use by Mozart: "Octaven und Quinten". So there's normally two solutions: 1) to change the german sixth to an italian sixth at the last minute so there's no p5. Schubett loves this so well. 2) To resolve to a cadential I 6/4 chord, e.g. G, B, D, E# to F#, B, D, F#, then to dominant.

But German sixth itself is ambigious: other than an aug chord, it can also be reinterpreted as a dominant seventh chord: G, B, D, E# as G, B, D, F, then to a nepolitan sixth chord C chord and to a dominant, which is the case here used by Chopin. Similar example is that Ger 6 chord by Beethoven in the midway of the last mov of his op. 110: a dominant seventh of Ab major, Eb, G, Bb, Db is reinterpreted as a ger 6 of G minor: Eb  G, Bb, C# to modulate to G minor in the second arioso.

But here it's even more complicated: Chopin doesn't want that C major to have a stable vision. It's written as Dx, B#, Fx and B#. Thus the previous chord has to be written in Ax, Cx, Fx, Ax, Ax and Cx to B# and Fx stays. Hope this can help you unsterdand a bit!

Henry

1 hour ago, Thatguy v2.0 said:

I like getting into stuff like this, especially when resolving chords in unexpected ways. I once wrote a piece where I wanted to reach the minor 9th of an E7b9 chord going upward towards it, to where it felt like home haha

I like that too!

10 minutes ago, Henry Ng said:

But here it's even more complicated: Chopin doesn't want that C major to have a stable vision. It's written as Dx, B#, Fx and B#.

Well see that's where my question was. A Ger+6 has the minor 7th spelled as an augmented 6th, so it was my understanding that the E# in the bass is supposed to resolve up to an F# if it was an augmented chord. But in this case it resolves down, just functioning as a Dominant 7th chord to the C major. I was thinking you were talking about how it's kind of a delayed resolve to the F#7 a few notes away. Maybe I'm not being clear though. Anyway, thanks for the help 🙂

26 minutes ago, Thatguy v2.0 said:

Well see that's where my question was. A Ger+6 has the minor 7th spelled as an augmented 6th, so it was my understanding that the E# in the bass is supposed to resolve up to an F# if it was an augmented chord. But in this case it resolves down, just functioning as a Dominant 7th chord to the C major. I was think you were talking about how it's kind of a delayed resolve to the F#7 a few notes away. Maybe I'm not being clear though. Anyway, thanks for the help 🙂

Because here it is not a German 6th chord. It is a German 6th sounding chord, but it's reinterpted as the dominant seventh chord of a demonic B# major. That's why the chord doesn't resolve as an aug6 chord, but as a dom7 of a nepolitan chord, with the bass from E# to Dx.

26 minutes ago, Thatguy v2.0 said:

I was think you were talking about how it's kind of a delayed resolve to the F#7 a few notes away.

That is a delayed resolve to the dominant. A Ger6th chord can be resolved to a dominant chord with the two means I mentioned above, but it passed through a N6 first, then resolve to the dominant.

Henry

22 hours ago, Henry Ng said:

Functionally it's a German sixth chord,

I see. This is what through me off, but thanks for clarifying Henry 😄

Haha I guess I was in a rush so I write that wrongly. Functionally it's not a german 6th chord, it's a german 6th sounding chord but is reinterpreted and functioned as a dominant seventh chord. Sorry for my wrong information!