Piano concerto in C minor - II Adagio

Hello there,

2 years ago I composed the first movement of a piano concerto in C minor. It was the longest and most developed composition I ever made. It took me almost 2 years to find inspiration again but i've finally made it. Therefore, here is the 2nd movement of this concerto. Took me 4 months to compose it. What do you think of it ? Any critic ? 

Piano_concerto_in_C_minor_-_II_Adagio_-_Camille_Fricot.pdf

Well done!

  I liked it!   It deserves much closer scrutiny before I could make any sort of constructive criticism.

    With that in mind--

     A times it crosses idiomatically from 19th century late romantic to 20th c/jazz it seems.   Planned?   Would it be stronger rooting it in a style/

    My first impression of the opening--and definitely now--is the piece deserves an attention grabber.   While I appreciate the quiet opening and the build up to follow, I though something like subtle tremolos in the middle strings would fill the chords will creating more sonic interest to start---some hightened anticipation.

   A very strong piece and obviously the product of much labor.   I was engaged for the duration.  

    Congrats!

Hello @Camfrtt,

I am sorry for my late response and reply!

I love your idea of linking movements with remote key relationship through a transition, like how Dvorak does in his New World Symphony. It's just the harmonic progression not smooth enough here with a iv-V-I in G major and suddenly followed by IV-V-I in A major, dominant of D. You can add intermediate chords between the G major and D major chord, or other chord choices, e.g. using B flat major as the pivotal chord with C minor as the ii of B flat and B flat as flat 6th of D. There are many choices here though!

A great first theme in horn that reminds me of the second movement of Tchaikovsky's Fifth Symphony. I will use C natural in b.13 though. When the piano joins in overall is real great except I am not satisfied with the left hand of the piano in b.23 onwards. The tempo is not fast enough for a single quaver notes and I will use at least two notes, since you want to preserve the left hand chords in later climax.

That piano cadenza in b.36 is amazing, and the modulation to F sharp minor climax is very successful and unexpected! Real grand climax returning to D major, well done! I am just afraid the high notes of the oboe will be too thin from b.58-63 though.

I am a bit off for the Scherzando section in b.67. The Scherzando itself is great and humorous and it shows the piano technique, but personally I don't think it fit the overall mood of the movement, and with its brevity it doesn't act as a successful contrasting section. Also it appears after a climax, so here the mood should not be heightened again for me. The cadenza in b. 98 is really satisfying to hear to! Very pianistic and showy!

A very successful ending by returning the opening mood!

Very nice harmonic choices throughout the movement with the thickness and add notes of late romantic style. I enjoy this so much and really excited to see how your third movement going! For my advice, don't be afraid to write like Rach! Maybe other people will encourage you to "find your innovative voice and style", but I don't agree here for you. You are very talented and I am sure you will find your voice in the future, but what is crucial for you now is to get adapted into composing musically convincing music, and Rach will be a very good role model for you to learn on. It's better than experimenting and failing and ruin your confidence and I am always persistent on learning the basics before finding own distinctive voice. Thank you so much for your sharing, Camille! We are happy to have talented members like you!☺️

Henry

Bravo, that was very well made. I loved the motifs you played with, and I especially loved the climax of the movement. The pianistic writing reminded me of Rachmaninoff with its intertwined lines, and the orchestration reminded me of Tchaikovsky.

Some things I noticed were mostly to do with engraving. 1. The tempo markings are VERY small here, which is problematic because the conductor needs to be able to see it without looking for it. He should just be able to glance and know. Also, you should really have dividers so that, for example on page twelve, you can tell what is where. They look like this:  and I assume with the program you use you should be able to enable them if you can find it.

Also, on measures 20-21 and probably in other places as well, there is a slur going over a pretty large area for the violins. I assume you know already, but in case you don't, slurs on strings denote bowing and slurs on winds and brass denote tonguing and usually breath. I'm not a violinist myself so I'd have to check with my brother, but it just looks a little long to me.

Overall though, this movement is very well constructed and composed, and you should definitely be proud of yourself for this.

Although I love to see the score while listening to compositions, and although the sounds are not the best, I chose not to follow the score and just listen, because the piece is beautiful indeed. It has a late romantic atmosphere...

Hi again Camfrtt! 

Up to minute 5 everything flowed effortlessly, no criticism. The transition you did at that point though, was a bit unconvincing to me, but I would say this is the only thing that had that effect on me. The rest was just very, very enjoyable, other transitions to new material were too. The mini-scherzo that precedes the final section was perhaps one of my favourite parts, but the rest of the piece isn't actually far away from it. It sounds solid.

On a final note, my only advice here would be paying attention at ComposaBoi's advice on the engraving, though I'm not a violinist either.

Thank you for sharing, it was a pleasure to listen to.

Kind regards,
Daniel–Ømicrón.

On 9/4/2022 at 9:54 PM, Rich said:

Well done!

 

  I liked it!   It deserves much closer scrutiny before I could make any sort of constructive criticism.

 

    With that in mind--

     A times it crosses idiomatically from 19th century late romantic to 20th c/jazz it seems.   Planned?   Would it be stronger rooting it in a style/

    My first impression of the opening--and definitely now--is the piece deserves an attention grabber.   While I appreciate the quiet opening and the build up to follow, I though something like subtle tremolos in the middle strings would fill the chords will creating more sonic interest to start---some hightened anticipation.

 

   A very strong piece and obviously the product of much labor.   I was engaged for the duration.  

    Congrats!

Hello Rich 🙂

I'm glad you liked this movement (which has been the most difficult to compose in my opinion). About the idiom, it is true that my compositions seem to draw its inspiration from mutiple composers and you may be right that the style sounds (too much?) eclectic at the end of the day. This is something I should work on.

On 2/10/2023 at 2:12 PM, Henry Ng Tsz Kiu said:

Hello @Camfrtt,

I am sorry for my late response and reply!

I love your idea of linking movements with remote key relationship through a transition, like how Dvorak does in his New World Symphony. It's just the harmonic progression not smooth enough here with a iv-V-I in G major and suddenly followed by IV-V-I in A major, dominant of D. You can add intermediate chords between the G major and D major chord, or other chord choices, e.g. using B flat major as the pivotal chord with C minor as the ii of B flat and B flat as flat 6th of D. There are many choices here though!

A great first theme in horn that reminds me of the second movement of Tchaikovsky's Fifth Symphony. I will use C natural in b.13 though. When the piano joins in overall is real great except I am not satisfied with the left hand of the piano in b.23 onwards. The tempo is not fast enough for a single quaver notes and I will use at least two notes, since you want to preserve the left hand chords in later climax.

That piano cadenza in b.36 is amazing, and the modulation to F sharp minor climax is very successful and unexpected! Real grand climax returning to D major, well done! I am just afraid the high notes of the oboe will be too thin from b.58-63 though.

I am a bit off for the Scherzando section in b.67. The Scherzando itself is great and humorous and it shows the piano technique, but personally I don't think it fit the overall mood of the movement, and with its brevity it doesn't act as a successful contrasting section. Also it appears after a climax, so here the mood should not be heightened again for me. The cadenza in b. 98 is really satisfying to hear to! Very pianistic and showy!

A very successful ending by returning the opening mood!

Very nice harmonic choices throughout the movement with the thickness and add notes of late romantic style. I enjoy this so much and really excited to see how your third movement going! For my advice, don't be afraid to write like Rach! Maybe other people will encourage you to "find your innovative voice and style", but I don't agree here for you. You are very talented and I am sure you will find your voice in the future, but what is crucial for you now is to get adapted into composing musically convincing music, and Rach will be a very good role model for you to learn on. It's better than experimenting and failing and ruin your confidence and I am always persistent on learning the basics before finding own distinctive voice. Thank you so much for your sharing, Camille! We are happy to have talented members like you!☺️

Henry

Hello @Henry Ng Tsz Kiu! 

About the link between the movements, you're right: this is something I love to do as it seems to give the piece a coherence in its whole (I think Mendelssohn was the first one to do it consistently in the symphonies and concertos).

About the technical points: you're absolutely right in your critic and when I will rewrite the work (not today but I will definitely do it) I will rewrite the small opening of the movement to make it harmonically smoother. The Left hand in b23 onwards is also something really easy to rewrite so it will be done. However, when it comes to the Scherzando section, I really like the contrast between the glorious orchestral fortissimo followed by this humoresque section. What is correct however, is that this section seems too short and should be lengthened.

Thanks a lot Henry for the consistency of your remarks and advice. I really value your opinion. I agree with you about the style thing. I consider myself too immature to begin to find my own voice, and this explains why I'm mainly inspired and immersed in the style of the ancient masters.

On 2/10/2023 at 3:11 PM, ComposaBoi said:

Bravo, that was very well made. I loved the motifs you played with, and I especially loved the climax of the movement. The pianistic writing reminded me of Rachmaninoff with its intertwined lines, and the orchestration reminded me of Tchaikovsky.

Some things I noticed were mostly to do with engraving. 1. The tempo markings are VERY small here, which is problematic because the conductor needs to be able to see it without looking for it. He should just be able to glance and know. Also, you should really have dividers so that, for example on page twelve, you can tell what is where. They look like this:  and I assume with the program you use you should be able to enable them if you can find it.

Also, on measures 20-21 and probably in other places as well, there is a slur going over a pretty large area for the violins. I assume you know already, but in case you don't, slurs on strings denote bowing and slurs on winds and brass denote tonguing and usually breath. I'm not a violinist myself so I'd have to check with my brother, but it just looks a little long to me.

Overall though, this movement is very well constructed and composed, and you should definitely be proud of yourself for this.

Hi ! Thank you so much about your advice concerning the tempo marking. That was something I was not aware of, and I'm definitely going to pay attention from now on.

On 2/10/2023 at 4:00 PM, Luis Hernández said:

Although I love to see the score while listening to compositions, and although the sounds are not the best, I chose not to follow the score and just listen, because the piece is beautiful indeed. It has a late romantic atmosphere...

I'm glad you liked this movement Luis. Sometimes, I like to listen to orchestral music without scores too, because it allows to move you deeply without having to pay attention to technical factors.

On 2/11/2023 at 1:25 AM, Omicronrg9 said:

Hi again Camfrtt! 

Up to minute 5 everything flowed effortlessly, no criticism. The transition you did at that point though, was a bit unconvincing to me, but I would say this is the only thing that had that effect on me. The rest was just very, very enjoyable, other transitions to new material were too. The mini-scherzo that precedes the final section was perhaps one of my favourite parts, but the rest of the piece isn't actually far away from it. It sounds solid.

On a final note, my only advice here would be paying attention at ComposaBoi's advice on the engraving, though I'm not a violinist either.

Thank you for sharing, it was a pleasure to listen to.

Kind regards,
Daniel–Ømicrón.

Thank you for your honest opinon, I'm glad you like the scherzando passage !