"Goliath"

A tone-poem I recently started. Just wanted to give a sneak peek into what I've been working on in terms of orchestration.

The piece is called "Goliath" due to the immense size of the orchestra. 

The beginning will actually be a foreshadowing to the ending. The next part, the con bravura in the horns, is the beginning to a sequel-prequel that will sound more victorious than when it returns later in the piece. 

I haven't started writing the real beginning to the piece - I'm working on motifs to present throughout. 

While I have an idea of the piece is truly about, I believe the audience should be left to interpret the piece for themselves rather than pushing something onto them. 

Wow @WowBroThatWasReallyEdgy,

This is really a wow beginning of an upcoming gigantic piece.

The beginning presented here, though not the real one, is really gorgeous. I love the all strings sound which is so pathetic. It's just the software that doesn't do enough justice to the harp arpeggios, overshadowed by the bowed strings, but I am sure that will be amazing in live. The buildup to mf and the diminuendo is great also.

In the next phrase, great cool sound by the brasses. Nice exchange between horns and english horn, though I just feel like the English Horn is quite overwhelmed by the underlying brass in b.13 in the midi file. The melody by oboe is penetrating enough and is great.

I absolutely adore that unison figure by strings. It gives me the feeling of Beethoven's Eroica, second movement. But personally I feel like b.15-16 can extend a little bit more to prepare for the next section, since that strings unison is so great and the melody so beautiful by winds.

That 13/8, 6+7 beat structure is really effective. I really love that extra beat to retard and thus heighten the motion. Nice percussive rhythm and elements to lead up to the wind melody featured by piccolo. Nice use of the fate motive in the brass, and the polyrhythm is used greatly here. I love the string version of the melody and lead up to it which is foreshadowed in the beginning.

Really look forward to any updates on this promising work!

Henry

Your intro is really powerful, I would expand on that. Love your horn writing, and the trombone pitch bend is so cool. Symphonies are actually one of my favorite types of music to listen to (despite my specialty in piano composition lol, go figure). But I can sit down and listen to symphonies hours at a time, and I'd be really excited to hear the finished product. A couple of things to watch out for, when you write music for so many instruments (and this isn't criticism since it's only 2 minutes in, these are just a few pointers from my perspective as you write more of your piece).

1. Please do not neglect the violas! They are a beautiful instrument. See my analysis of Tchaikovsky's Voyevoda, and listen to my clipped video in the post, showing off how beautiful the violas can be.
2. Each instrument should have a purpose. There's nothing more frustrating than a player who only has a small part in an hour long performance. Tchaikovsky was keen on ensuring each player had a part. His 4th symphony really demonstrates this with the brass leading the intro.
3. Make use of that tuba. It is a powerful instrument, and can emit some of the lowest notes in an orchestra. This helps add depth to your music.
4. Similarly, the double bass is one of the most powerful string instruments that can really add depth like the tuba. Don't neglect.

Do you plan on making this a 45 minute to hour long listening experience btw? With so many instruments, I think it should be 😉

22 minutes ago, chopin said:

Do you plan on making this a 45 minute to hour long listening experience btw? With so many instruments, I think it should be 😉

I was thinking a Mahler symphony with that sound and instrument!

22 minutes ago, chopin said:

Tchaikovsky was keen on ensuring each player had a part. His 4th symphony really demonstrates this with the brass leading the intro.

Yes, also the bassoon plays a prominent part but mainly the bah-bah-bah-bah fate motive by trombones, trumpets, tubas and horns, which is basically brass lol.

@Henry Ng and @chopin, thanks for listening! 

Henry,

The pathetique sound is exactly what I was going for in the intro because I don't want the story to end happy or sad for the listener - I want it to feel ambiguous and emotionally driven. My main goal of the piece is to leave all interpretation up to the listener and to let them create their own story.

The sound will be more full with nearly 62 string players: 16 Violin I, 14 Violin II, 12 Violas, 10 Cellos, and 8-10 Contrabasses. I get my numbers from Rimsky-Korsakov's Principles of Orchestration in case anyone was wondering. 

I am worried about the English Horn being overpowered by the low brass. I'll add a decrescendo and sotto voce in the brass to a pianissimo to try to combat this.

On 12/19/2022 at 10:47 PM, Henry Ng said:

But personally I feel like b.15-16 can extend a little bit more to prepare for the next section, since that strings unison is so great and the melody so beautiful by winds.

Extended in the wind section? I have an idea of what you're talking about because it does feel abrupt. I did want there to be a change in character at this point. Maybe the Flutes, Clarinets, Contrabassoon, and Horn could end the phrase better and decrescendo?

For Chopin,

No need to worry, I promise the intro will be expanded upon. It will return later in the piece as falling action and more of an ending rather than an introduction. I really wanted to introduce the main theme in the Cellos and establish it as the centerpiece of the work. 

Thank you very much for your pointers. I will be sure to heed your great advice and make the most of the orchestra. It's only fair to do so for the audience and players.

The Violas and Bassoons make a great pair for a tenor melody. I would go as far as saying Bassoons can be paired with nearly anything and it gives the melodic/harmonic line such great depth. 

On 12/19/2022 at 11:15 PM, chopin said:

Do you plan on making this a 45 minute to hour long listening experience btw?

Might be a stretch, but I will attempt to make this a very long work. I don't like prolonging sections unless there is a good reason for it. I'm looking at anywhere between 20 to 35 minutes for the time being, but who knows. I only have a rough draft of a musical map for the time being.

In Mahler's symphonies, I do sometimes feel that I've heard a section for long enough and that I'm ready for the next part. However, the wanting for the next part only makes it better when it finally arrives. The final movement of his 2nd Symphony is a good example.

Thanks, 
Patrick

42 minutes ago, WowBroThatWasReallyEdgy said:

Extended in the wind section? I have an idea of what you're talking about because it does feel abrupt. I did want there to be a change in character at this point. Maybe the Flutes, Clarinets, Contrabassoon, and Horn could end the phrase better and decrescendo?

"Extended" I mean to extend the bars and develeop a little bit more for the matetial on the winds, since I feel like this phrase so beautiful that it will abrupt to just appear in b.15 to 16. I think your instrumental choice is great if to repeat that figure played by oboe, that will be a great timberal contrast!