Punctis -An Orchestration Practice

I've been preoccupied with this the last week -as my rants in the shoutbox have shown. 

Basically, I'm trying to beef up my orchestration skills. I've got the winds and -of course- strings down, but BRASS is my challenge.

So, let's see if anyone here can offer some insight.

Hi Jason, and sorry in advance. I don't see a problem with the brass specifically but it is true that the part played by trumpets between like 1:30 and 2:30 felt a bit unconnected with the rest of the instruments; I would say this is intended and not actually an issue of the instrument per se neither the entire brass section though. 

BTW this piece sounds epic from like 4:00 on, hope everyone agrees.

Now seriously: what is your issue exactly? You write a certain phrase for brass and it doesn't fit? Doesn't the timbre of a certain instrument convince you? For whatever you are struggling with I'd suggest to explain a bit further since I don't want to tell you something that you've had already in mind like the role of each one in the orchestra that you can find —of course, much better explained than whatever I would come up with—in books like Adler's "The Study of Orchestration". My only advice that will surely incur in what I just mentioned (telling you something you already know) would be —for now—: try experimenting with all brass different sounds through the use of mutes, different (less or more) number of voices for the brass in terms of instruments and number of instruments, blah blah blah. In the rare case you didn't know about the book I mentioned, checking it may be worthy!

Kind regards,
Daniel–Ømicrón.

I'm familiar with that text. 

I think my biggest issue is that I don't want to drown out the winds and strings? So, I'm afraid to write for the brass. I'm a string player myself -so, I'm sure my preconceived insecurities about the brass overpowering my little viola are what drives that fear. 

Hi Jason,

I see why the brass sounds bad now in the later sections now. b.115-116 shows the weird timbre of trombone and tuba. The "timpani" really gives me the impression of snare drum!! I don't lie on that.

I have nothing to say to your orchestration, since I am no better than you! I think b.81-103 the balance is very good, and I don't think the brass outweigh the strings and winds in the passages.

The only one thing I concern is the abrupt change of moods and tempi in different sections. I think some bridges or preparations can be added to them! The passages themselves are great, I only personally find the change abrupt.

47 minutes ago, Omicronrg9 said:

BTW this piece sounds epic from like 4:00 on, hope everyone agrees.

Me too!

45 minutes ago, jawoodruff said:

, I'm sure my preconceived insecurities about the brass overpowering my little viola are what drives that fear. 

You should not be afraid of that, since your writing is good! Actually a viola in orchestra is quite overwhelmed by other instruments I guess?

Henry

41 minutes ago, jawoodruff said:

So, I'm afraid to write for the brass. I'm a string player myself -so, I'm sure my preconceived insecurities about the brass overpowering my little viola are what drives that fear. 

And very likely digital playback won't help you in that yeah. There's only one way to overcome that feat though. Consider avoiding ALL strings-brass doubling when you not be in a tutti section. Perhaps it would be best to begin with some kind of question-answer structure, you know, if this is going live, just for you to check. Also consider that generally (dunno where that doesn't happen) you have more strings players than brass players and that'll logically help balancing the difference in loudness naturally. In summary, as Henry said: your writing is good, at least to my humble perception, so don't be afraid. Worst case scenario you'll learn what's wrong. 

 

Hi. Just an observation.

WE all know virtual instruments are not accurate. But the way you did it here results in an unbalanced sound from the start, particularly concerning the french horns (the weakest of the brass family).

When you write this, does it mean that the circled parts are played by two and two horns (1-3, 2-4)? If that's the intention, the virtual instrument is playing two, not four. That will make the sound weaker.

This is what I do: 

Luis, 

Yes, it's supposed to be horn 1 and 3 on the top line and horn 2 and 4 on the bottom. I'll make the change in the notation of the horn parts to reflect this. Thats an awesome idea! I told you my knowledge of brass writing sucks bad. LOL. Any other changes in the brass parts you'd recommend? I've learned not to go off the virtual rendering -which is good cause the brass still sound like 8bit video game music.

I think many of us feared the brass section because of its power.

It's important the balance within the orchestra, it's not the same a baroque orchestra than Mahler.

Also when and how, ... The brass section can do anything (background, countermelodies, runnings, punctuation...), but we must be aware of that power and balance.

It helped me a lot to see (the score) and listen to music by composers who mastered this section: Wagner, Brahms, Tchaikovsky, Mahler, Bruckner, Holst, etc....

Of course: I'm a forever learner.