Feedback on 4 Part Harmonization Exercises

Im not sure if this is right forum for this, but I have been trying to improve on my 4 part writing, and was looking for feedback and advice. I have posted to four 4 part harmonization exercises that I did. Any general feedback would be appreciated. 

Edit: I forgot to mention that the given melodies (Cantus Firmi) are highlighted in red.

Dear @Guardian25,

The rules are of the four part writing only. I check this out quickly and may miss some other things.

For the 1st exercise, the VII6 chord is not good. A vii chord is a diminished chord and the third should be doubled, which the E is doubled here, but the leading tone should never be doubled since they both should resolve to tonic. Also the G is missed. A V6 or V6/5 chord will be better here with one C# changed. In the last two chords sopranos and bass are in parallel octaves. I will change the penultimate chord to a V7 chord will C# and G in soprano and alto.

For the second one is OK.

For the third one I will also finish with perfect cadence instead of having a vii6 chord before the tonic.

For the fourth one is OK.

Keep writing!

Henry

I thnk that in the first exercise the progression mentioned VII6 I6 is a bit "void" because both chords have been reduced to two tones.

11 hours ago, Henry Ng Tsz Kiu said:

Dear @Guardian25,

The rules are of the four part writing only. I check this out quickly and may miss some other things.

For the 1st exercise, the VII6 chord is not good. A vii chord is a diminished chord and the third should be doubled, which the E is doubled here, but the leading tone should never be doubled since they both should resolve to tonic. Also the G is missed. A V6 or V6/5 chord will be better here with one C# changed. In the last two chords sopranos and bass are in parallel octaves. I will change the penultimate chord to a V7 chord will C# and G in soprano and alto.

For the second one is OK.

For the third one I will also finish with perfect cadence instead of having a vii6 chord before the tonic.

For the fourth one is OK.

Keep writing!

Henry

 

I forgot to mention that the melodies in red were given melodies, so that why for the third exercise I went with the vii6 before the tonic!

So im not sure if this would change your analysis of the exercises!

10 hours ago, Luis Hernández said:

I thnk that in the first exercise the progression mentioned VII6 I6 is a bit "void" because both chords have been reduced to two tones.

 

I changed it! Is it better now to you?!

4 hours ago, Guardian25 said:

I forgot to mention that the melodies in red were given melodies, so that why for the third exercise I went with the vii6 before the tonic!

Then that will be ok!

4 hours ago, Guardian25 said:

So im not sure if this would change your analysis of the exercises!

Now I check out the new version. I see the vii6 chord now has a G in it and E is doubled, which is good, but it has a parallel octaves with the previous chord now in soprano and bass (both from D to E).

In ex.3 the I6 chord as a major chord has two thirds, which will be considered too bright in traditional 4 part harmony (Though it's used beautifully in Mozart's Requiem in the Introit).

Henry

Just make a quick sketch of the ex.1. The bad thing is there is a repeated V chord used.

20230101_084006.pdf

Henry

33 minutes ago, Henry Ng Tsz Kiu said:

Just make a quick sketch of the ex.1. The bad thing is there is a repeated V chord used.

20230101_084006.pdf 103.57 kB · 1 download

Henry

PDF

• 20230101_084006

Ahh ok I see! So I problem should start using more Dominant 7ths to tonic resolutions, and I was trying to not repeat notes in the soprano, but I'm assuming it is sometime necessary.

The dominant 7th is really useful, just make the 7th will resolve downwards then it will be fine! V7, V65, V43 are quite similar which usually resolve to a I, whereas V42 resolves to a I6 chord.

Before I make some remarks - just a few questions: do you strictly have to harmonise the melody in minims or can you change chords at crotchet speeds? Do you plan on a complete harmonisation (i.e. with nonharmonic notes, suspensions etc. added)?

16 minutes ago, muchen_ said:

Before I make some remarks - just a few questions: do you strictly have to harmonise the melody in minims or can you change chords at crotchet speeds? Do you plan on a complete harmonisation (i.e. with nonharmonic notes, suspensions etc. added)?

 

 

 

For these exercises, I was trying to harmonize each note value given in red. And with these I was not looking to add any non harmonic tones. So I guess basic 4 part writing. 

12 minutes ago, Guardian25 said:

For these exercises, I was trying to harmonize each note value given in red. And with these I was not looking to add any non harmonic tones. So I guess basic 4 part writing. 

But can you harmonise at crotchet speeds? The vast majority of chorales assign one chord per crotchet even if the chorale melody moves in minims. It would tremendously in alleviating awkward progressions like vi⁶ - vii⁶ in Ex. 1.

9 minutes ago, muchen_ said:

But can you harmonise at crotchet speeds? The vast majority of chorales assign one chord per crotchet even if the chorale melody moves in minims. It would tremendously in alleviating awkward progressions like vi⁶ - vii⁶ in Ex. 1.

 

im not opposed to it! I was just going by the harmony book that I am going through, which harmonizes each note of the melody in 4 parts!

4 minutes ago, Guardian25 said:

im not opposed to it! I was just going by the harmony book that I am going through, which harmonizes each note of the melody in 4 parts!

I would keep this in mind for any future chorale harmonisations.

I will focus on the first chorale.

The V - vi⁶ - vii⁶ - I⁶ progression is problematic. It's not as serious an error as consecutive 8ves, but nonetheless not very idiomatic. Basically, it is a long sequence of chords ascending by seconds, which are extremely rare (as opposed to chords ascending by fourths or sixths, which are extremely common). And when most of them are used in first inversion like this, the tonic/dominant relationship central to chorales is particularly weakened. One solution is to just insert a IV chord between the vi and vii. Another solution (if we insist on harmonising at minim speeds) is to modulate to the dominant using V - V/V - V (seventh) - I.  In addition, V - vi⁶ is itself extremely rare. I see no reason to not use a simple V - vi. 

The soprano line is also not very idiomatic (as opposed to the bass line, which is good) since it mostly oscillates between D and E. In an inner line this would be OK but you'd ideally want the top line to be a little more melodious.

I also see some consecutives - when starting out I'd highly advise being rigorous, and doing checks for every pair of voices (6 checks in total).

2 hours ago, muchen_ said:

I would keep this in mind for any future chorale harmonisations.

I will focus on the first chorale.

The V - vi⁶ - vii⁶ - I⁶ progression is problematic. It's not as serious an error as consecutive 8ves, but nonetheless not very idiomatic. Basically, it is a long sequence of chords ascending by seconds, which are extremely rare (as opposed to chords ascending by fourths or sixths, which are extremely common). And when most of them are used in first inversion like this, the tonic/dominant relationship central to chorales is particularly weakened. One solution is to just insert a IV chord between the vi and vii. Another solution (if we insist on harmonising at minim speeds) is to modulate to the dominant using V - V/V - V (seventh) - I.  In addition, V - vi⁶ is itself extremely rare. I see no reason to not use a simple V - vi. 

The soprano line is also not very idiomatic (as opposed to the bass line, which is good) since it mostly oscillates between D and E. In an inner line this would be OK but you'd ideally want the top line to be a little more melodious.

I also see some consecutives - when starting out I'd highly advise being rigorous, and doing checks for every pair of voices (6 checks in total).

 

I redid the first exercise. With your suggestions in mind!

Dear @Guardian25,

Now the exercise 1 has no obvious consecutives now. However, on traditional 4 part harmony major chords should only double its root or fifth but no its third since it will be too bright. In your IV6 and I6 chords third is double, which is not good in tra. 4 part harmony. Minor chords, like the ii6 chord, can double its third.

In a strict sense, the last two chords has hidden octaves, since they both reach D in similar motion, with the leap from A to D in soprano bigger than that step of C# to D in tenor. But that's not allowes in the strictest sense only.

Henry

18 minutes ago, Henry Ng Tsz Kiu said:

Dear @Guardian25,

Now the exercise 1 has no obvious consecutives now. However, on traditional 4 part harmony major chords should only double its root or fifth but no its third since it will be too bright. In your IV6 and I6 chords third is double, which is not good in tra. 4 part harmony. Minor chords, like the ii6 chord, can double its third.

In a straight sense, the last two chords has hidden octaves, since they both reach D in similar motion, with the leap from A to D in soprano bigger than that step of C# to D in tenor. But that's not allowes in the strictest sense only.

Henry

 

Interesting! I will look into fixing these problem!

Since hidden is not allowed, I'm thinking maybe having the soprano ending of the third (F) would probably be the best way to finish this exercise?

I think the best is to use contrary motion. You can retain the E in the ii6 chord to the V chord, and finish with E-D in soprano. Since this step is smaller than the leap in bass, it is acceptable. Remember to use more contrary motion since it's always safer than the similar motion in 4 part harmony excercise.

Finishing in F sharp will also be ok if it's not a final chord, but I prefer a PAC than an IAC in the final cadence, so I will use E-D progression in soprano to make sure soprano ends on the root.

Henry

29 minutes ago, Henry Ng Tsz Kiu said:

I think the best is to use contrary motion. You can retain the E in the ii6 chord to the V chord, and finish with E-D in soprano. Since this step is smaller than the leap in bass, it is acceptable. Remember to use more contrary motion since it's always safer than the similar motion in 4 part harmony excercise.

Finishing in F sharp will also be ok if it's not a final chord, but I prefer a PAC than an IAC in the final cadence, so I will use E-D progression in soprano to make sure soprano ends on the root.

Henry

 

Ahh ok, so repeating a soprano note is fine, when needed?

So, something like this would work?

Now it's almost finished! Good use of the dom.7 chord. However in the first two chords, the soprano and bass becomes parallel octaves now😅 with parallel D to A  even the contrary motion will not save it.

7 minutes ago, Henry Ng Tsz Kiu said:

Now it's almost finished! Good use of the dom.7 chord. However in the first two chords, the soprano and bass becomes parallel octaves now😅 with parallel D to A  even the contrary motion will not save it.

 

Would this be a good solution?

24 minutes ago, Guardian25 said:

Would this be a good solution?

Yes it's good! Congrats on that!!

2 minutes ago, Henry Ng Tsz Kiu said:

Yes it's good! Congrats on that!!

 

Thanks! And thanks for the help, this exercise was giving me a lot of trouble! I will have to keep practicing to get better at this! 🙏

19 minutes ago, Guardian25 said:

Thanks! And thanks for the help, this exercise was giving me a lot of trouble! I will have to keep practicing to get better at this! 🙏

Just keep practicing and I'm sure you will get familiar with it and do it much quicker and more accurate!