sonata nr 3, third movement

Here is the last part of my sonata.  I would be grateful to receive your comments

Also, I wish everybody a happy new year !

This is qiite charming and tuneful. You did well on this!

I love this movement! I actually love this movement more than the first. So witty here. Really Schubertian like his moment musicals! The rhythm, melody, mood, everything funny with some darkness in it. I really feel like here sadness is satired.

I love those sudden modulation. For me the flow is great. It definitely creates surprise as well as drama in it. I love how the tonic C sharp minor seems weakened throughout the movement but still actually get hold of it by its near key of E major, G sharp minor and D flat major (superseded by F minor), and some passing of the C sharp minor reminds us the tonic key. The tonality also makes the playful ans fleeing moos here.

For me b.83-84 seems abrupt since it never reappears later which I think it can be good material, as Schubert uses it well in his impromptu in A flat major, op 90 no.4.

Concerning some spelling issue, in b.118 it should spell F double sharp and A sharp. B.205 should spell Eb and Gb in the left hand.

I really love this movement! But it seems there's not enough finality here. Does that mean there will be a final fourth movement?😍

P.S. NO! I just see that it's the last part of the sonata! I really would like to have one more!!😭😭

Henry

I find it very difficult to write music in this style. But this piece is convincingly good and interesting.

On 1/4/2023 at 1:30 PM, jawoodruff said:

This is qiite charming and tuneful. You did well on this!

 

Thank you

I am really pleased that you like it!

On 1/4/2023 at 2:21 PM, Henry Ng Tsz Kiu said:

I love this movement! I actually love this movement more than the first. So witty here. Really Schubertian like his moment musicals! The rhythm, melody, mood, everything funny with some darkness in it. I really feel like here sadness is satired.

I love those sudden modulation. For me the flow is great. It definitely creates surprise as well as drama in it. I love how the tonic C sharp minor seems weakened throughout the movement but still actually get hold of it by its near key of E major, G sharp minor and D flat major (superseded by F minor), and some passing of the C sharp minor reminds us the tonic key. The tonality also makes the playful ans fleeing moos here.

For me b.83-84 seems abrupt since it never reappears later which I think it can be good material, as Schubert uses it well in his impromptu in A flat major, op 90 no.4.

Concerning some spelling issue, in b.118 it should spell F double sharp and A sharp. B.205 should spell Eb and Gb in the left hand.

I really love this movement! But it seems there's not enough finality here. Does that mean there will be a final fourth movement?😍

P.S. NO! I just see that it's the last part of the sonata! I really would like to have one more!!😭😭

Henry

 

Thanks a lot for your valuable inputs ! I agree with you that this piece is perhaps the best of the three movements. I put a lot of work in it to obtain coherence and consistency.

The passage of ms 83-84 was something I added on later. Originally, I went from 82 to 85 (which works OK as well) but I wanted to break up the rhythm ( and avoid monotony) a bit. But maybe it is somewhat abrupt. I will think about it.

Thank you for pointing out the spelling issues. I agree that ms 205 should be spelled with flats, and I will change this. But I am a bit confused about your suggestion for ms 138. I think that this measue is still part of an E minor key (which changes to E major in ms 119). I woul fully agree with your spelling if it would be part of the E-major key.  Could you explain this issue to me?

The feeling about "not enough finality" is in fact similar to what I felt before, but I did not do anything about it. Thank you for reminding me!

There are two ways to deal with this: 1) I coud re-write and extend the ending of the piece or 2) write another movement. I think that the last option is the best. I am already thinking of a scherzo as the finale of the sonata, but I will do it later. I am too much occupied with two new pieces.

Best regards, and thank you for a great recview!

16 hours ago, Luis Hernández said:

I find it very difficult to write music in this style. But this piece is convincingly good and interesting.

 

Hello Louis,

Thank you for your comments.

I can tell you that it is not easy for me as well. It is not something I can do in a day or two!

1 hour ago, panta rei said:

I agree that ms 205 should be spelled with flats, and I will change this. But I am a bit confused about your suggestion for ms 138. I think that this measue is still part of an E minor key (which changes to E major in ms 119). I woul fully agree with your spelling if it would be part of the E-major key.  Could you explain this issue to me?

On 1/4/2023 at 9:21 PM, Henry Ng Tsz Kiu said:

Concerning some spelling issue, in b.118 it should spell F double sharp and A sharp

I actually was noting the G natural and B flat in b.118, not that on b.138. B. 138 is perfectly fine for me, whereas in b.118 it should be A sharp there (F double sharp or G natural will also be ok) since it's a German sixth chord there.

1 hour ago, panta rei said:

The feeling about "not enough finality" is in fact similar to what I felt before, but I did not do anything about it. Thank you for reminding me!

There are two ways to deal with this: 1) I coud re-write and extend the ending of the piece or 2) write another movement. I think that the last option is the best. I am already thinking of a scherzo as the finale of the sonata, but I will do it later. I am too much occupied with two new pieces.

Of course I would like you to have one more movement! It is always great to have one more wonderful movement! It gives me the feeling of "not enough finality" because C sharp minor is not firmly established here. But it's also because of this that makes this movement so fleeing.

I would be looking forward to your two new pieces! Are they also piano works or other stuffs?

Henry

A really charming, at times very dramatic piece. Under five minutes, but a lot of things are happening. So many ideas! At around 1:20, this scale run comes a bit abrupt for me, but it works probably better in a live performance. At times though, I wonder if the piece would have even more coherence if you would work with less motives but took more time developing them (like you do e.g. with the opening motive). But that is a matter of taste, no criticism.

On 1/6/2023 at 2:12 PM, Henry Ng Tsz Kiu said:

I actually was noting the G natural and B flat in b.118, not that on b.138. B. 138 is perfectly fine for me, whereas in b.118 it should be A sharp there (F double sharp or G natural will also be ok) since it's a German sixth chord there.

Of course I would like you to have one more movement! It is always great to have one more wonderful movement! It gives me the feeling of "not enough finality" because C sharp minor is not firmly established here. But it's also because of this that makes this movement so fleeing.

I would be looking forward to your two new pieces! Are they also piano works or other stuffs?

Henry

 

Thanks a lot Henry, for your clear explanation. I will change the spelling and upload the corrected score.  I am really grateful for your engagement!

It will take some time before I will start with the fourth movement. Right now I am working  on  a piece for cello and piano. I have only written 25 measures so far, but it is coming along. I might consider making a full sonata of it, depending on how it works out

At the same time, I work with a new piece for piano. I got a very nice motif, but I am a bit stuck with it at the moment. It goes around in circles for me, and I need to get away from it for a while. But I think that temporary deadlocks are not uncommon problems for composers.

14 hours ago, Willibald said:

A really charming, at times very dramatic piece. Under five minutes, but a lot of things are happening. So many ideas! At around 1:20, this scale run comes a bit abrupt for me, but it works probably better in a live performance. At times though, I wonder if the piece would have even more coherence if you would work with less motives but took more time developing them (like you do e.g. with the opening motive). But that is a matter of taste, no criticism.

 

Thank you very much Willibald for your comments.

I have already discussed the downward run  (bar 83/84) in a reply to Henry´s comments.  I will look at it again, but somehow, I would not like to remove it. If you play it at a lower volume, with a slight accent on the first notes of the groups of 1/16 notes, it will probably be less abrupt. And a live performer would certainly deal with it in a better way.

The question of handling and further workout of the different motifs is difficult.  It would not necessarily result in a better coherence. An important issue for me is trying to optimize the overall rhythm and structure. Once you start removing, fixing and repeating too much, things may get dislocated and the piece may get boring.

1 hour ago, panta rei said:

It will take some time before I will start with the fourth movement. Right now I am working  on  a piece for cello and piano. I have only written 25 measures so far, but it is coming along. I might consider making a full sonata of it, depending on how it works out

 

 

At the same time, I work with a new piece for piano. I got a very nice motif, but I am a bit stuck with it at the moment. It goes around in circles for me, and I need to get away from it for a while. But I think that temporary deadlocks are not uncommon problems for composers.

I am looking forward to both of them! 

For me temporary deadlocks are really common. That's one of the reason I have to use 6 years to complete my first clarinet quintet, apart from laziness and busy schedule. I always get stuck on new motives and themes. When I got stuck I probably write the accompaniments, mark the details like dynamics or something to wait for the muse. Sometimes I will just start on a new piece. Sometimea I listen to unfamiliar works and study unfamiliar topics, hoping these will give me new inspirations.

Thank for sharing!

With how much this piece modulates around and plays around with alternating between major and minor, I'm surprised that you managed to end it in the same key in which you started!  Well done!  A very ambiguous and harmonically enigmatic language you use in this.  So many secondary dominants constantly tonicizing new keys!  But thematically it is interesting too, not just harmonically.  You bring rhythmic interest by alternating between dotted rhythms, 16th note, and triplet subdivisions of the beat.  Great job - I too am hoping for another movement - thanks for sharing!

On 1/8/2023 at 8:55 AM, PeterthePapercomPoser said:

With how much this piece modulates around and plays around with alternating between major and minor, I'm surprised that you managed to end it in the same key in which you started!  Well done!  A very ambiguous and harmonically enigmatic language you use in this.  So many secondary dominants constantly tonicizing new keys!  But thematically it is interesting too, not just harmonically.  You bring rhythmic interest by alternating between dotted rhythms, 16th note, and triplet subdivisions of the beat.  Great job - I too am hoping for another movement - thanks for sharing!

 

Thank you Peter for your stimulating and encouraging response.  Right now, I am working on a piece for cello and piano, but I also got some ideas for the fourth movement  . It looks like it is going to be a scherzo. I will post it as soon as it is ready

Best regards

On 1/8/2023 at 12:22 AM, Henry Ng Tsz Kiu said:

I am looking forward to both of them! 

For me temporary deadlocks are really common. That's one of the reason I have to use 6 years to complete my first clarinet quintet, apart from laziness and busy schedule. I always get stuck on new motives and themes. When I got stuck I probably write the accompaniments, mark the details like dynamics or something to wait for the muse. Sometimes I will just start on a new piece. Sometimea I listen to unfamiliar works and study unfamiliar topics, hoping these will give me new inspirations.

Thank for sharing!

 

 

Thanks Henry for your reply! ( I uploaded the revised score)

Hey @panta rei!!,

Thanks for this piece. I completely agree with all the other comments about the beauty of the movement. There is an incredibly meticulous effort in the writing whose practical result is beautiful. You can see a harmony typical of romanticism, as you clarify in the title, and great influence from authors like Schumann. I congratulate you on the end result! Bravo.

Claudio

On 1/13/2023 at 11:28 PM, panta rei said:

Thanks Henry for your reply! ( I uploaded the revised score

I am sorry for checking this out late! I see the revised score and thanks for that!

On 1/15/2023 at 3:25 PM, ClaudioCamacho said:

Hey @panta rei!!,

Thanks for this piece. I completely agree with all the other comments about the beauty of the movement. There is an incredibly meticulous effort in the writing whose practical result is beautiful. You can see a harmony typical of romanticism, as you clarify in the title, and great influence from authors like Schumann. I congratulate you on the end result! Bravo.

 

Claudio

 

Thank you Claudio for your appreciative and stimulating comments!