Piano Sonata no.1 in A major, Pastoral, First Movement

Piano Sonata no.1 in A major Pastoral First Movement 13-01-2023.pdf

This is the scored version of the first movement of my Piano Sonata no.1 in A major, Pastoral (2015). It's called pastoral since I subconsciously use the theme from Beethoven Symphony no.6 in the same name. It's more influenced by Beethoven's op.101 though. This movement and the whole sonata is basically a practice on using one single motive throughout the piece.

In this movement sonata form is used. The prime motive is used as the first subject and the inverted form is used as the second subject.

Hope you enjoy! I personally don't value this piece highly though. I plan to record the 2nd movement as well, but the 3rd and 4th movements I am in doubt of their quality, so I probably won't record them.

P.S. Please  find the youtube video, mp3 and pdf file! This recording is recently recorded and the score is polished a little bit.

Henry

P.P.S. The second movement of the work is posted on YC with the link below:

This is really cool!  I had to remind myself of the theme of Beethoven's Pastorale Symphony and I have to say I don't think it's very similar at all!  Maybe just some of the rhythm and contour of the main theme, but this is far from a copy and paste (which you justly remarked in another post is simple plagiarism).  Stylistically and harmonically it is quite inspired by Beethoven however.  But that's not a bad thing by any means.  I think as composers and creative types we sometimes can't help and have a bit of hero worship!  All your melodic and harmonic material is quite lucid and well thought out, never jarring or discontinuous.  The chords are sometimes thick but not overbearingly so - quite like Beethoven would probably have written himself.  Your performance is quite good as well!  The piece does retain the feel of a pastorale movement, being sprightly with its jaunty spring in its step in 6/8.  Great job and thanks for sharing!  And if you don't have recordings of the 3rd and 4th movements, I would love to hear at least the computers rendition of it!

Hi Peter! Thank you for your encouragement and giving me the badge!

19 minutes ago, PeterthePapercomPoser said:

I had to remind myself of the theme of Beethoven's Pastorale Symphony and I have to say I don't think it's very similar at all!  Maybe just some of the rhythm and contour of the main theme, but this is far from a copy and paste (which you justly remarked in another post is simple plagiarism). 

Yeah when I was composing in the midway of the whole composition I suddenly found out that the main motive comes from the opening of Beethoven's Pastorale. I was quite worried but just forgot it later on, since I had put some creativity to it at least.

25 minutes ago, PeterthePapercomPoser said:

Stylistically and harmonically it is quite inspired by Beethoven however.  But that's not a bad thing by any means.  I think as composers and creative types we sometimes can't help and have a bit of hero worship!

I was then an all-Beethoven fan. I worshipped him and treasured all his piece, even though I didn't know thoroughly on his pieces at all. I am less Beethovanian now though, but at that time I composed really Beethovanian-ly, which is not a bad thing for a novice composer, even though it would be detrimental to one who wants to be mature. I hope I am less Beethovenian now.

28 minutes ago, PeterthePapercomPoser said:

All your melodic and harmonic material is quite lucid and well thought out, never jarring or discontinuous. 

I was paying attention to maintaining the flow though. My main inspiration for this movement is the first movement of Beethoven's op.101, piano sonata in A major, where he achieves an amazing lucidity and fluidity. I hoped I can write like that too at the moment. I still treasure the lucidity and fluidity now though.

30 minutes ago, PeterthePapercomPoser said:

The chords are sometimes thick but not overbearingly so - quite like Beethoven would probably have written himself. 

Maybe because I play the piano myself so I know the effect of the texture of chords.

31 minutes ago, PeterthePapercomPoser said:

The piece does retain the feel of a pastorale movement, being sprightly with its jaunty spring in its step in 6/8. 

Yeah and the drone bass is quite pastoral as well. Thanks for noting the pastoral elements in it!

31 minutes ago, PeterthePapercomPoser said:

And if you don't have recordings of the 3rd and 4th movements, I would love to hear at least the computers rendition of it!

I am practicing the 2nd movement which is a Scherzo and it's quite difficult to play. For the 3rd and 4th, 3rd is actually a quite OK slow movement, but the 4th is quite trash since the structure is too sparse as I attempted to write like Schumann at that time, whose style I cannot capture at that moment. Your suggestion is great, and I will consider having at least the computer rendition of them posted here! (Not in Youtube though)

I am also practicing my 2nd Piano Sonata in A flat major in five movements  That one is much better than this I guess and I will post all of them in the future!

Thank you for your review Peter! I great appreciate that!

Henry

I definitely see the resemblance to the pastorale, however, I think you're safe in that you didn't really quote it. Alluded to, yes. But that's not a problem at all.

Overall, I like the strength of your right hand passages. The thickness works. I think the interplay between the treble and the bass could've been a bit more worked out.

One suggestion: I know this movement overall is very heavy with thick textures predominating. Give the music time to breath a bit by providing some lighter textures. Interplay with the motif in a call in response or transition it into a more quieter atmosphere. This is subjective though.

I'm really impressed that you played this!

1 hour ago, jawoodruff said:

Overall, I like the strength of your right hand passages. The thickness works. I think the interplay between the treble and the bass could've been a bit more worked out.

Thanks! The thickness idea may be because of the pastoral nature of the movement I guess.

1 hour ago, jawoodruff said:

One suggestion: I know this movement overall is very heavy with thick textures predominating. Give the music time to breath a bit by providing some lighter textures. Interplay with the motif in a call in response or transition it into a more quieter atmosphere. This is subjective though

I agree that the thick structure is predominating here. The thin texture only appears in a few moments which doesn't give much contrast to it. I probably will provide more timberal contrast now but will stay in its way. It's always great to have new thoughts on old works! Thank you for that!

1 hour ago, jawoodruff said:

I'm really impressed that you played this!

Thank you! I actually don't find this particularly difficult though 😅!

Thank you for listening and your review, Jason! I greatly appreciate that!

Henry

This sounds VERY VERY VERY Beethoven 6th to me. As others have said, it is reminiscent of it and not a direct quote, but it's very near that work in style, themes, treatment of material, development, etc.

That said, I feel like you took inspiration from Beethoven and ran with it in your own way. My hope is that you used this as something to learn from and apply techniques Beethoven used. I could sit here and list all the ways I felt it was similar, but this work is roughly 7 years or so old and not true to who you are as a composer now. 

I like that you used this as a vessel to explore ways of developing one theme, but I wish your second theme for a sonata form was a bit more contrasting rather than just flipping the original upside down more or less. I feel like part of the beauty of sonata form is to have those contrasting moments, and maybe during the development you could have really gotten creative in melding the two with all sort of intertwined ways. 

A bigger point I'd like to make is something more philosophical, and perhaps more to you as a composer and human being in general. You have GOT to stop this:

On 1/13/2023 at 5:09 AM, Henry Ng Tsz Kiu said:

I personally don't value this piece highly though. I plan to record the 2nd movement as well, but the 3rd and 4th movements I am in doubt of their quality, so I probably won't record them.

There are many times you say these things about yourself, and it honestly bothers me. You're very humble and modest, but have some confidence in your abilities! Is it because you're not world famous or have the notoriety of a successful freelance composer that you say these things? Sure your music may have faults (whose doesn't?), especially your older music, but you are an extremely talented composer. 

I absolutely LOVE your piano playing. Keep in mind mastering your instrument is a life long task. You give the impression of always being a student of your craft, and that's step one. You play bloody brilliantly, and you're one of the few people I know from here that I would pay to have you record my piano pieces. 

Everything I've ever heard from you is something that I've enjoyed, regardless of any comments I may make towards your music. I always try to be constructively critical of at least a few things with anyone's music I hear, and with yours I find myself trying a bit harder because I enjoy your music so much. Even though I'm not always around on our discord channel, I've heard all that stuff you've posted of your playing. It's great, you're great, and the only thing greater than your compositions and piano playing is who you are as a person. I've never seen someone so adamant on giving feedback to other members here. You have a day job, teach piano on the side, and still make room in your life to share so much of your knowledge for everyone here. It's been a joy to have gotten to know you, and if I were you I would be very proud of everything you post.

You're in the predicament of comparing yourself to the greats, whether in your compositions or performance. Honestly that's good, and maybe in your culture virtuosity is revered over substance, but I just want you to have more confidence with your music. Beethoven himself was known to have been a bit sloppy in his piano improvisations, but he didn't care. Mistakes are what will always make our music great, it's the human element that I'll always favor over the polished VST's of a computer representing our music. 

You've set the bar so high for yourself, I feel like you sometimes forget that so many people love and enjoy your music. Just keep that in mind. You don't have to be ego-centric to stand by your music. Keep learning, keep studying, keep writing, keep posting, and keep being you Henry. 

Thanks for sharing, I'll ALWAYS comment and listen to your music. I know I have your hour long piece to finish, but a comment will come in time. Don't be afraid to share more of your older pieces too, regardless of how you've grown since then. I'm also excited to hear the wind piece you've mentioned, I'm very curious how your current music stands up to the wonderful older pieces you've shown us.  

Vince, I cry while reading your reply. It is so touching and you give me what I lack: confidence.

I am not confident and always self-critical. I seldom value what I do and always aim higher. That can be good but it does give too much pressure to myself.

You know sometimes it's difficult. Before joining this forum everyone around me do not appreciate my music and playing. I freakingly want to compose, but sometimes lack of encouragement does hinder my progress, as I lack the motivation to compose. I reflect now and find this the main reason of composing the quintet in 6 years.

I always say I am lucky to join this forum. It's always great to see talented composers around the world and learn from them. You say I am adamant on sharing my thoughts to others, actually I learn from them each time I review the pieces. Maybe due to the mutual encouragement, I am able to write that wind quintet piece in 9 days. I will definitely post that here in the near future, since I am busying with my piano practicing these few weeks.

3 hours ago, Thatguy v2.0 said:

It's great, you're great, and the only thing greater than your compositions and piano playing is who you are as a person.

I can say the same thing to you, except changing piano to guitar (and singing probably)! I always admire your confidence and your ability to encourage others. During these few months' stay I see how many times you are willing to encourage others here. That's thing I treasure you most, not even your great composition. Without you I won't even think of composing that wind quintet piece and joining the call for score, which was a great experience for me.

3 hours ago, Thatguy v2.0 said:

I like that you used this as a vessel to explore ways of developing one theme, but I wish your second theme for a sonata form was a bit more contrasting rather than just flipping the original upside down more or less. I feel like part of the beauty of sonata form is to have those contrasting moments, and maybe during the development you could have really gotten creative in melding the two with all sort of intertwined ways. 

Music-wise I was practicing to develop one motive throughout the piece, and this movement probably inspired by Haydn's monothematic sonata movement as well! You are right the contrast is not great though.

Thanks so much for your encouragement, and your appreciation on my works and playing. I am speechless to show how thankful I am.

3 hours ago, Thatguy v2.0 said:

and you're one of the few people I know from here that I would pay to have you record my piano pieces

P.S. If you want me to record your piano piece, just tell me and I will play it for free! Just give me practicing time will be fine.

Henry

Hi @Henry Ng Tsz Kiu, you've been so generous with you constructive comments on my music that now I feel inadequate commenting on yours! Oh, well. I like the pastorale sound of the movement. It is reminiscent of the 6th symphony, of course, beyond the thematic similarity, but it also reminds me of certain bits of the pastorale piano sonata (eg bars 56-57 and similar passages), which I guess means you have captured the "pastorale" atmosphere right on!

I only have two observations. One is at 33-34 and 133-34: why do you leave the melody unaccompanied in the right hand? I thought that adding chords in the tenor/alto registry would be a nice addition. Second is at bar 95-103: do you think it'd be interesting to try and amplify the tension building for instance by starting with the left hand playing quaver chords at 95-96, then 8th broken chords at 97-98, then 16th etc.? or would that be too crass?

I like the development section a lot (might also be closest to the symphony in parts) and in general I'm a big fan of how natural and beautiful your harmonic progressions sound. Thank you! Is there any way we could listen to the remaining movements?

Hey @Giacomo925,

Thank you so much for your attentive listening and review! I really appreciate that!

2 hours ago, Giacomo925 said:

Oh, well. I like the pastorale sound of the movement. It is reminiscent of the 6th symphony, of course, beyond the thematic similarity, but it also reminds me of certain bits of the pastorale piano sonata (eg bars 56-57 and similar passages), which I guess means you have captured the "pastorale" atmosphere right on!

Yes I didn't mention the pastorale sonata but I was and still am in love with it. That sonata, along with no. 13 and no.14 the moonlight, was the first classical music I had ever listened to when my mum brought the CD from the library! I don't know why, actually I didn't have the pastorale idea right at the beginning but conposed with the sound of it, and subconciously used Beethoven's theme! I was more thinking of his op.101 in the same key that time.

2 hours ago, Giacomo925 said:

only have two observations. One is at 33-34 and 133-34: why do you leave the melody unaccompanied in the right hand? I thought that adding chords in the tenor/alto registry would be a nice addition.

Actually I have never thought of this and think this is a good suggestion. I don't know why I do that, maybe I want emphasize the climax later on in b.35-37 and 135-137, thus I put a lighter texture before them. But your suggestion is very reasonable! Thanks for this!

2 hours ago, Giacomo925 said:

Second is at bar 95-103: do you think it'd be interesting to try and amplify the tension building for instance by starting with the left hand playing quaver chords at 95-96, then 8th broken chords at 97-98, then 16th etc.? or would that be too crass?

Of course that would not be crass! That's a very reasonable suggestion. Usually before the recapitulation tension should be built to prepare for the return of the 1st subject, but it's just that I wanted to do something different: I actually wanted to minimize the tension and expectation of returning to the tonic key in it. Normally I would probably return to tonic A major in place like b.95, but I want to play with the expectation and also make it more poetic, thus having a pp on a F sharp minor second inversion chord lingering with a sparse 16th notes in the left hand, and then let that dominant seventh chord suddenly appears in b.103 with a tenuto. You suggestion is a good one, it's just that I have different ideas!

2 hours ago, Giacomo925 said:

I like the development section a lot (might also be closest to the symphony in parts) and in general I'm a big fan of how natural and beautiful your harmonic progressions sound. Thank you!

Thank you for your appreciation! I try my best to keep the flow of the movememt moving and minimize the contrast of it, making it as natural as possible with less adventerous harmonic progression, if not too unvaried!

2 hours ago, Giacomo925 said:

you've been so generous with you constructive comments on my music that now I feel inadequate commenting on yours!

I find that we have the similarity of focusing on the interplay between parts/instruments, that's why I find your music very affable for me and I enjoy so much of your music too! This kind of mutual encouragement is great!

2 hours ago, Giacomo925 said:

Is there any way we could listen to the remaining movements?

I am practicing the second Scherzo movement, which is quite difficult and may come after few weeks time. For the third movement I am changing my mind and may record it. For the fourth, I will just put the computer rendition here since the structure of the finale is a mess. I am also practicing my piano sonata no.2, so stay tuned! I love that sonata more than this though!

Thank you!

Henry

Hello Henry,

I hope your doing well when you (eventually) read this comment! Firstly, I'd like to say that this is a very wonderful piece, and you should really think of it more highly. My favourite passage was that from b.96 to 103 with that cool as chromatic passage.

There's not much else I can add, but thank you for dropping this piece!

Kind regards,

Arjuna

Hey Arjuna,

Thx for liking the piece!

22 hours ago, expert21 said:

Firstly, I'd like to say that this is a very wonderful piece, and you should really think of it more highly.

Maybe I don't think of it highly enough is because it's not too emotionally deep which is the opposite of my own personality. I will say I was diligent enough to work out the motives there.

22 hours ago, expert21 said:

My favourite passage was that from b.96 to 103 with that cool as chromatic passage.

Yeah I love that passage too, as I play with the expectation of having a loud return back to recapitulation there but actually not.

Henry

Beautiful! I couldn't help but smile to hearing Beethoven's style. I really respect those who can replicate those old classical ideas. Beautifully played as well, my congratulations to you!

Hi @Musical,

Thx for reviewing my piece!

20 hours ago, Musical said:

Beautiful! I couldn't help but smile to hearing Beethoven's style. I really respect those who can replicate those old classical ideas. Beautifully played as well, my congratulations to you!

Thank you! I am afraid I may replicate too much of Beethoven haha, but thanks for your compliment!

Henry

Hi @Henry Ng Tsz Kiu, even as someone relatively new to both you and the forum, I still very much share the same observations and sentiments.

On 1/17/2023 at 7:09 PM, Giacomo925 said:

you've been so generous with you constructive comments

On 1/15/2023 at 5:12 AM, Thatguy v2.0 said:

I've never seen someone so adamant on giving feedback to other members here

I think most, if not all, of us on the receiving end of your responses are deeply appreciative, even thankful. It is with people like you forums such as this feel more friendly and comfortable for more shy ones like me to enter and open up. As you had personally related,

On 1/15/2023 at 8:27 AM, Henry Ng Tsz Kiu said:

mutual encouragement

was, and has been, that which keeps oneself going. 

Beyond how the Beethovenian references and styles, and what is " pastoral", are not only true to the composer but also integrated and personalized, the interesting pauses easily point to the ones in your Third Piano Sonata in C sharp minor. Still need to take more time to explore your pieces.

I'm not exactly in a position to say much since I, too,

On 1/17/2023 at 7:09 PM, Giacomo925 said:

feel inadequate commenting on yours

but both the pieces and the playing are impressive. It can clearly be seen from the forums and the channel that people do respect, value and think highly of your musical contents.

Very grateful to this forum as well, really look forward to learning and exploring from, and with, y'all !

Ke Shen

5 hours ago, Aw Ke Shen said:

I think most, if not all, of us on the receiving end of your responses are deeply appreciative, even thankful. It is with people like you forums such as this feel more friendly and comfortable for more shy ones like me to enter and open up. As you had personally related,

You are too kind!
 

5 hours ago, Aw Ke Shen said:

Beyond how the Beethovenian references and styles, and what is " pastoral", are not only true to the composer but also integrated and personalized, the interesting pauses easily point to the ones in your Third Piano Sonata in C sharp minor. Still need to take more time to explore your pieces.

I'm not exactly in a position to say much since I, too,

On 1/17/2023 at 7:09 PM, Giacomo925 said:

feel inadequate commenting on yours

That!s what I am striving for after joining YC. I care less on my own style before joining, it’s only after joining YC I care more in my original sound after communicating with members, especially under the guidance of @Thatguy v2.0 and @PeterthePapercomPoser. Hopefully from the change of the 1st to the 3rd Piano Sonata there will be more me there! And as a teaser I am going to post a six part fugue, a part of the 2nd movement of my String Sextet and I really hope there are more me there., even though it’s mainly sadness. And don’t feel inadequate commenting my pieces, I always make mistake and really enjoy different thoughts! Plus I always need motivation and confidence since I always lose it!

5 hours ago, Aw Ke Shen said:

but both the pieces and the playing are impressive. It can clearly be seen from the forums and the channel that people do respect, value and think highly of your musical contents.

Thank you!

5 hours ago, Aw Ke Shen said:

Very grateful to this forum as well, really look forward to learning and exploring from, and with, y'all !

That’s exactly what I thought when I just joined YC! Thx for your joining!

Henry