Overture

Trying to write an overture in three parts and got stuck on the third movement. Would also like to know what people think of the first two movements

Hi @malumCompositor,

I find the marching idea in the first movement very interesting. I think it is a good presentation of the motive and I think the movement can be further developed, for example adding contrasting themes to it, developing the motives and themes to different forms etc. I am not a good orchestrator myself but I find the wind sections and strings too detached from each other except in b.40 to 48. Maybe more mixing of the instruments can add timberal contrast to the theme as well!

For the second movement there are two motives, one in wind and one in strings. You can have more interplay of them for example voice exchange, further developing each of the motive to enlarge the adagietto section. The adagietto section would not be long enough to be called a movement, since its potentiality is not yet developed. I think you can first spend some time on developing the first two movements first and then focus on the third movement, that's one approach. Or you can go on to sketch on the third and it may give you some backward inspiration as well. Take your time to try different approaches on writing and find your most suitable one!

Thanks for sharing!

Henry

3 hours ago, Henry Ng Tsz Kiu said:

The adagietto section would not be long enough to be called a movement, since its potentiality is not yet developed.

There are some very short slow movements in the Baroque period, the Overture to Tolomeo e Alessandro has one which is quite short in bar numbers, and Bach's Brandenburg concerto 3 has a slow movement 1 bar in length, although several think that an harpsichord cadenza was supposed to follow it.

Just a thought

23 minutes ago, malumCompositor said:

There are some very short slow movements in the Baroque period, the Overture to Tolomeo e Alessandro has one which is quite short in bar numbers,

Sometimes it's not only related to the longevity of the movement, but the completeness of it and the achieving of its function matters. For example in the third movement of Beethoven's op.131 it contains only 11 bars but it achieves its transitional function well. It has presentation, climax and closure within its 11 bars. I feel like you can develop more here for your second movement, at least having a proper closure for it!

23 minutes ago, malumCompositor said:

Bach's Brandenburg concerto 3 has a slow movement 1 bar in length

Bach doesn't write out the bars since it's for the cadenza of the harpsichordist to improvise. That doesn't mean it's 1 bar in length though. For example in the classical concerto you will only see the ending trill for the cadenza passage, but that doesn't mean we only have to play that trill. 

Thanks for your clarification!

Henry

Hi.

• I agree with Henry on his comment about the development of the vertebrating idea on the moderato movement, something that you start to do at M24 but that imo, ended too soon. The positive outcome of this is that you keep it simple, and thus the question-answer structure you form between strings and winds becomes pretty pretty clear.

• 2nd and third movement are quite sober in comparison with the first one in my opinion. Following your own style it's pretty obvious to me that you should end the phrase you opened at 60 and proceed with tutti or a similar set of phrases for the strings, and then to a tutti to resolve.

Thank you for sharing, best wishes to this piece and kind regards,
Daniel–Ømicrón.
 

The trochaic rhythms of the first movement paired with occasional triplets and simple straight 8ths are very overture-like and I can imagine this as an overture to some kind of opera!  I think you could extend this first movement by trying to modulate or visit some other key center instead of clinging so persistently to that B minor tonality though. It sounds like you could easily do a varied repeat of the first phrase to make the piece longer, before going on to the second phrase which could also be repeated to lengthen the piece.  You seem to sell yourself short in this movement in general though, never letting your phrases become full periods or sentences.  Overall an enjoyable piece though!

The 2nd movement is also very short but there doesn't seem to be much possibility of developing it - it just seems like a short idea ... maybe you could incorporate it into the form of the 1st movement somehow?

Thanks for sharing and keep composing!