Fantasy no. 2 for Orchestra

This is my second fantasy for Orchestra. I'm going to give a bit more -just due to the fact I'm planning on sending this to a local orchestra.

My inspiration for using the fantasy form comes from Mozart's fantasies for piano. I loved the way Mozart took the improvisatory technique and used it compositionally -where each section is based off material from the previous section. I tried looking for Britten's Phantasie on Youtube -but sadly, couldn't find a good one with score to analyze prior to writing this (but I heard his work did the same thing?)

Anyways, I also wanted to go off the idea of a 'dream-like' opening as I did in my first fantasy (which I'm reorchestrating and recomposing sections of). This one opens and ends in a similar fashion. However, I've applied more of what I've learned orchestrating and have more extensive brass parts and a timpani part written out. 

That said, I'm probably going to redo the ending of this one to make it more final. I'm probably going to compose more of these types of orchestral works. I really enjoyed writing this and love the result of it. 

Hope you all enjoy!

Hi again Jason, nice to check you just uploaded another piece. But less protocol and more going straight to the point:

• A very peaceful and fascinating beginning. Instruments appear and disappear without troubling or getting in the way of the flow of this piece. When I happen to review a piece and comment something regarding the lack of dynamics, I believe this would be a perfect example of how to make good use of them, damn!

• The "fantasy" title is completely fitting in my opinion. I am reaching 5:00 and I didn't even realize. You got me immersed. I hope the local orchestra you're sending this to play it soon.

• I agree with you regarding the ending of the piece, it's probably the most improvable thing at first sight, but it's not even bad in its current state in my opinion.

Looking forward to check your next fantasies or works of a similar kind!

Kind regards,
Daniel–Ømicrón.

 

Hey

So, I've thought a while as to what to say to you, and well, I think that the more honest I am, the more you could benefit from the words. Just know, I think you're a fantastic composer, and your string piece I basically gushed over won me over to your style. I like the patterns I see in your music, especially with you establishing some sort of theme, and then having static rhythms truck along under a secondary thought. 

I don't know if this matters, but when I first listened, I intently followed along with the score. But after a few times through, I just let the music play while staring at a non-moving discord server, and it seemed to help with my thoughts about your music. 

Firstly, I love how you really toy around with motifs. Not only did you develop an idea and then explore it's evolution throughout the piece, but you toss it around equally to the other instrument colors available to you. You're great at this, and I think your exploration into your current modern language has helped you tremendously with it. My only qualm is that your material never really "went" anywhere, at least to me. You would develop these great sections, only to be transitioned into something else. Maybe that's the whole point of the fantasia style you were going for, but I just never felt proper cadences or anything like that. I'm probably just a noob, not really fully grasping the grand scope of this piece, but that's just how it felt to a layman like me. 

Honestly, that was my only real gripe with this one, musically at least. You do such a great job utilizing every sound at your disposal, but I just felt like it was directionless at times. Again, maybe I didn't fully understand the full picture, and maybe it's written plainly in the notes you laid out for us, but aurally I didn't comprehend it to your fullest intent. Sometimes, right when I felt like it was going somewhere I could understand, we had another transition to another idea. Sure, that idea probably came from some logical nucleus, but I missed the seed as it grew. I dunno, just my impression.

Aside from that, I love the orchestration. I really like how you took a more modern approach to the ensemble, favoring colors and timbre over dynamics in lots of stuff versus bits of stuff. I would have maybe like to see a bit more variation in what the instruments are capable of as far as techniques, but eh, it's fine as is. 

I'm curious about the nature of the language you favor in your writing. This seems a little more conservative, I'm just wondering what makes you decide whether something should be tonal and what should stretch our ears more regarding consonance? Is there a rhyme or reason to it or is it just where inspiration is taking you at the moment?

Overall, I love the orchestral side of your writing, and I'm eager to hear where you take this avenue next. You're someone I look out for whenever something new is posted, and it's only natural that not everything you write speaks to me in the same way your latest string quartet did. It's not that it isn't well crafted, it assuredly is, but just wasn't my favorite from your repertoire. Keep writing and posting my friend, your output is only as admirable as your quality of work. Well done!

Hi Jason,

I actually enjoy the less tight motivic structure and more tonal language here. That's what a fantasy mean. I know your feeling. Sometimes we are so used to one style and we may want to use less of it, whether deliberately or subconciously. And I don't feel like the structure since you still use motives, just not saturated with it here.

I find your usage of brass more adventerous here, and I love that since it's the main feature of the piece I will say. You woodwind writing is still great. It definitely shows your learning process, congrats on that!

Like Daniel said, your prudent attention of details is amazing as always. The ending may seem abrupt, but for a fantasy I think it's fine. Of course you can work on it if you are not happy with that!

6 hours ago, jawoodruff said:

I really enjoyed writing this and love the result of it. 

I feel like you are not overdoing the things, that's why you enjoy it! I enjoy the other side of your music!

Thanks for sharing!

Henry

5 hours ago, Thatguy v2.0 said:

Hey

So, I've thought a while as to what to say to you, and well, I think that the more honest I am, the more you could benefit from the words. Just know, I think you're a fantastic composer, and your string piece I basically gushed over won me over to your style. I like the patterns I see in your music, especially with you establishing some sort of theme, and then having static rhythms truck along under a secondary thought. 

I don't know if this matters, but when I first listened, I intently followed along with the score. But after a few times through, I just let the music play while staring at a non-moving discord server, and it seemed to help with my thoughts about your music. 

Firstly, I love how you really toy around with motifs. Not only did you develop an idea and then explore it's evolution throughout the piece, but you toss it around equally to the other instrument colors available to you. You're great at this, and I think your exploration into your current modern language has helped you tremendously with it. My only qualm is that your material never really "went" anywhere, at least to me. You would develop these great sections, only to be transitioned into something else. Maybe that's the whole point of the fantasia style you were going for, but I just never felt proper cadences or anything like that. I'm probably just a noob, not really fully grasping the grand scope of this piece, but that's just how it felt to a layman like me. 

Honestly, that was my only real gripe with this one, musically at least. You do such a great job utilizing every sound at your disposal, but I just felt like it was directionless at times. Again, maybe I didn't fully understand the full picture, and maybe it's written plainly in the notes you laid out for us, but aurally I didn't comprehend it to your fullest intent. Sometimes, right when I felt like it was going somewhere I could understand, we had another transition to another idea. Sure, that idea probably came from some logical nucleus, but I missed the seed as it grew. I dunno, just my impression.

Aside from that, I love the orchestration. I really like how you took a more modern approach to the ensemble, favoring colors and timbre over dynamics in lots of stuff versus bits of stuff. I would have maybe like to see a bit more variation in what the instruments are capable of as far as techniques, but eh, it's fine as is. 

I'm curious about the nature of the language you favor in your writing. This seems a little more conservative, I'm just wondering what makes you decide whether something should be tonal and what should stretch our ears more regarding consonance? Is there a rhyme or reason to it or is it just where inspiration is taking you at the moment?

Overall, I love the orchestral side of your writing, and I'm eager to hear where you take this avenue next. You're someone I look out for whenever something new is posted, and it's only natural that not everything you write speaks to me in the same way your latest string quartet did. It's not that it isn't well crafted, it assuredly is, but just wasn't my favorite from your repertoire. Keep writing and posting my friend, your output is only as admirable as your quality of work. Well done!

 

 

I'm glad you enjoyed it -despite you're deep love of my string quartet <3!

I really took the idea of the fantasie from the set of them composed by Mozart. In those, he does a similar thing -he gravitates from one idea to the next. They are really free form in that regard -and this follows suit. I really tried finding more modern usage of the form for study -but came short. At any rate, I'll delve deeper here into the construction of the piece.

Tonality: I really did a slight of hand here. The tonality is loosely based on the Phrygian Mode -but, I say loosely as I alter the mode within each section (first by flattening the first note, then the fourth, then the fifth). This is why the section at measures 121 -144 sounds remote from the implied tonal center of E. It's probably also why the ending doesn't sound complete to me. I established E as the tonal center right at the outset with the suspended chords in the strings -with woodwind punctuation to offset the fact the passage isn't functional at all. The chords were designed diatonically with stacked thirds -but the progression created was meant to create a state of stasis. That said, the remainder of the work features a myriad of tertian, quartal, and quintal harmonies -sometimes superimposed on top of each other. I also use secundal harmony and 'cluster' chords (but spaced out over the ranges of the instruments to lessen the dissonant impact of the chords}. This type of spatial placement is modern. The lack of functional harmony is also why there aren't any 'formal' cadences. Instead, I had to rely on gestural cadences which are clear -but the rendering via midi doesn't quite do these justice as live musicians would do.

Motivic Development and Unity: In keeping with the form of a fantasy, the material here is pretty much reduced. The material for each segment comes from an idea I found interesting in the preceding section -all of which is tied into the material found in the 1st violin from measures 35 - 40. Again, the modal alterations that I made throughout the sections impacts the segments from the motivic units I used per section. The material is then treated in an improvisatory manner -which is why it's bounced around and manipulated but moves quickly from one idea to the next (much as if you were improvising on your instrument). 

Atonal vs. Tonal: This is really the nuts and bolts of the entire query you had -so I'll give it a go. I've been doing a lot of thought of where I want my music to go and what contributions I want to make to our art as a composer. I've been listening to a lot of orchestral music of late and I happened to notice that a lot of the modern orchestral works either are huge sound masses that explore textural changes at the expense of melodic or motivic development. Works that use thematic material don't seem to really do much imaginative with it -not as some of the great modernist composers of the 20th century did (Bartok, Ligeti, Stravinsky, etc.) I started this piece with the idea of doing a 'sound mass' sort of American Landscape type work BUT... I got to thinking.... do we really need another? I mean, most of these type of works are usually a few listens and then you're done with them sort of pieces. They rely solely on the orchestration and coloration provided by a symphony orchestra -and very little else. I decided I had to do something different. My response was to go the opposite direction and look at the works of the greats of the 20th century and see what I could use within my own musical language. From Stravinsky, I took the ostinato usage from his works in the 1910s. To me, this was an interesting way to establish a sense of tonality -where tonality wasn't exactly functional in nature. From Ligeti, I looked at his use of brevity found within his Bagatelles for Wind Quartet. The whimsical nature of these works with his scaled back use of chromaticism and dissonance were quite breath taking. Yet, they are modern in their own right. From Bartok, his use of implied tonality. I think he excelled far greater than Stravinsky in that department as he utilized similar juxtapositions.

Overall, I feel this work definitely builds on what was laid in my string quartet. While the string quartet definitely is more dissonant due to the contrapuntal interplay of the passages, it too has an implied tonality to it. It also uses a myriad of harmonic styles within each movement similar to this -along with the lack of 'formal' cadences. Hopefully, this in depth look at my inner thoughts on this piece is useful.

Thanks again for listening and glad you enjoyed it!

8 hours ago, Omicronrg9 said:

Hi again Jason, nice to check you just uploaded another piece. But less protocol and more going straight to the point:

• A very peaceful and fascinating beginning. Instruments appear and disappear without troubling or getting in the way of the flow of this piece. When I happen to review a piece and comment something regarding the lack of dynamics, I believe this would be a perfect example of how to make good use of them, damn!

• The "fantasy" title is completely fitting in my opinion. I am reaching 5:00 and I didn't even realize. You got me immersed. I hope the local orchestra you're sending this to play it soon.

• I agree with you regarding the ending of the piece, it's probably the most improvable thing at first sight, but it's not even bad in its current state in my opinion.

 

Looking forward to check your next fantasies or works of a similar kind!

Kind regards,
Daniel–Ømicrón.

 

 

I have a few ideas for the ending. For me, the transition from the restatement of the opening material could is what I'm looking at as well as the end material. Doesn't quite seem cohesive to me. I'll tinker with it. Glad you enjoyed it though!

2 hours ago, Henry Ng Tsz Kiu said:

Hi Jason,

I actually enjoy the less tight motivic structure and more tonal language here. That's what a fantasy mean. I know your feeling. Sometimes we are so used to one style and we may want to use less of it, whether deliberately or subconciously. And I don't feel like the structure since you still use motives, just not saturated with it here.

I find your usage of brass more adventerous here, and I love that since it's the main feature of the piece I will say. You woodwind writing is still great. It definitely shows your learning process, congrats on that!

Like Daniel said, your prudent attention of details is amazing as always. The ending may seem abrupt, but for a fantasy I think it's fine. Of course you can work on it if you are not happy with that!

I feel like you are not overdoing the things, that's why you enjoy it! I enjoy the other side of your music!

Thanks for sharing!

Henry

 

I'm glad you noticed the brass writing! I've been doing a lot of delving into the repertoire thru score study. So, I'm learning what the brass are capable of that way. The irony of my brass quandry is that years ago when I was at the conservatory, I composed a piece for brass quintet. It was a quasi-serial fanfare. I may re-compose it (but most likely won't as it was a student piece). I should've took notes from the performance of it and the other comp majors works and kept them. Oh well, thank god for score study!