Lucid REM and Reached Alert

Hello everyone,

I am a little new to the forum and a (almost) young composer. To be very honest, I wrote a lot of music when I was young and then nothing until this year. 30 years of stop... It makes me a young composer! Haha.

during my Covid isolation, agitated and feverish, locked in my office (which is also a small home studio) I discovered the fantastic possibilities of the samples. It made me want to try to get back to the composition. So this is more to be considered as a leg lift... Exercises, and the pleasure of having a complete orchestra at home. What I didn't dare to dream of when I was a student and it took 3 days to dialogue a DX7 and an Atari 520 st to get the sound of a rotten bell!

So, I would like to submit two recent pieces, orchestrated in samples.

One for Cello and orchestra (Reached Alert, which is inspired by a bad appreciation I had on a school bulletin), The other for piano and orchestra, which evokes these lucid dreams (pretext for moving from one disparate atmosphere to another).

I hope not to abuse the forum for all this!

Thank you in advance for your advice and attention

Hey @Krisp,

Welcome to the forum!! I really appreciate your returning to composition after 30 years!! It's always not late to do what you love!!

You should consider splitting these two compositions for two posts since for me they deserve individual post here!

I will first review Reached Alert first. Your harmonic language is modern and your use of orchestral power is great. The use of cello is very mature with all the range covered, legato and spiccato are all used. I especially love the 3rd movement with the cello solo since it really fits! The cor anglais is great here. The sound of pizz.(?) in mov 4 is very interesting as in Saint-Saëns's Danse Macabre. It's great to reach the last movement after the Berceuse and the build up in Mov 6. A very satisfying ending for me!

If applicable will you provide the pdf score here as well? This will allow fellow members to review your piece in a more detailed way!!

If you have time you can also look around the posts from other talented members! I am sure you will find many of them interesting and you can even take your time to review or comment as well!

Thanks for sharing and joining the community!

Henry

3 hours ago, Henry Ng Tsz Kiu said:

Hey @Krisp,

Welcome to the forum!! I really appreciate your returning to composition after 30 years!! It's always not late to do what you love!!

You should consider splitting these two compositions for two posts since for me they deserve individual post here!

I will first review Reached Alert first. Your harmonic language is modern and your use of orchestral power is great. The use of cello is very mature with all the range covered, legato and spiccato are all used. I especially love the 3rd movement with the cello solo since it really fits! The cor anglais is great here. The sound of pizz.(?) in mov 4 is very interesting as in Saint-Saëns's Danse Macabre. It's great to reach the last movement after the Berceuse and the build up in Mov 6. A very satisfying ending for me!

If applicable will you provide the pdf score here as well? This will allow fellow members to review your piece in a more detailed way!!

If you have time you can also look around the posts from other talented members! I am sure you will find many of them interesting and you can even take your time to review or comment as well!

Thanks for sharing and joining the community!

Henry

 

 

Hello,

Thank you for your welcome and this very friendly comment, as well as a very sustained attention!

Indeed, it might have been more readable if I had dissociate these two pieces... Good. They are very recent and I associate them in my mind as "solo instrument and orchestra parts" all in a virtual world of samples.

I currently have no pdf of the score, it's in project and I'm working on it but I had too little time for it, so only my manuscripts (which serve as a visual support for Youtube videos).

I have already started listening to several pieces posted on the forum and I will comment on them little by little. It's very interesting!

See you soon and thank you a thousand times!

PS. in mvt 4, it is col legno battuto!

very

very

very

very

very

very

very

very

very

very

very

very

very

very

very

very

very

very

very

very

very

very

very

very

very

very

very 

what

very

very 

very

very

very

very

very

VERY

VERY

...cool music 😄

I've listened to these pieces a few times now. I REALLY wish you had scores available for us to dissect and follow along, but I'm guessing you use a DAW for input and they don't make the most reliable scores. 

Could you possibly delve into your compositional style and tendencies? Sure, I'm using my ear to kind of figure out your developmental procedure, but I'm curious on your take. 

For one, I LOVE how you use the orchestra. I love the modern take on prioritizing color and scarcity over bombastic romantic-era textures. Your two pieces never fail to deliver in this regard, and they delight and flourish throughout their entirety. I'm reminded of the large swaths of color and texture of the impressionistic composers, and although I don't hear too much relation in language, perhaps it's an influence in style and content?

I will say, that when restricted to an ensemble, there's a sort of cohesion that takes effect in the amount of color available. A certain logic. Just be wary of your writing in the DAW, as colors can stream in and out, but it's nice when they make sense. For instance, if one instrument has a melodic line, but then isn't used ever again. Not saying your music does this, but it's just a trap I sometimes hear when listening to a "cinematic orchestral experience", like these pieces. 

I appreciate you offering us two well written pieces in this post as your introduction (and btw, welcome!!!), but keep in mind if feedback to grow as a composer is your goal, your music will be more digestible if separated with their own posts. And if you have more pieces composed that you're willing to share, space them out. A dump of several pieces at once tends to go unnoticed by most (except my main man @Henry Ng Tsz Kiu, you can count on him), and with the quality of your work, I would hate that each thoughtful presentation of your piece doesn't receive the attention it deserves. 

Overall, outstanding display of your compositional prowess, and again, welcome to the community! I'm glad you made the most of your Covid experience and turned back to composing, as at least I am very grateful to hear your style and talent resurface into wonderful works of art. You seem like you really know your stuff, especially in production value of your music. I strongly encourage you to poke around in our forums and offer any advice you deem fit; many members here could really learn a lot from your insight into composition and most would welcome any criticism you might share. 

Thanks for sharing, I look forward to hearing more of your works you grace here in the future!

I've so far listened to Reached Alert and what a superb piece it is too. 

If only you gave us a score I could point out parts of special interest. Very well composed, developed, divided into contiguous contrasting sections: some fractious almost 'angry' outbursts, other parts that are simply beautiful; lyrical - the solo 'cello. A grand climax to conclude.

The harmony is always engaging and I guess in your earlier days you gave a lot of time to score study because the orchestration is as professional as it gets - which I'll say in the absence of a score but the balance always seems OK. I particularly liked your handling of the brass. 

I'll come back to listen to Lucid REM later this evening (if I can - there's a lot of interruptions going on around here right now)!

4 hours ago, Quinn said:

I've so far listened to Reached Alert and what a superb piece it is too. 

If only you gave us a score I could point out parts of special interest. Very well composed, developed, divided into contiguous contrasting sections: some fractious almost 'angry' outbursts, other parts that are simply beautiful; lyrical - the solo 'cello. A grand climax to conclude.

The harmony is always engaging and I guess in your earlier days you gave a lot of time to score study because the orchestration is as professional as it gets - which I'll say in the absence of a score but the balance always seems OK. I particularly liked your handling of the brass. 

I'll come back to listen to Lucid REM later this evening (if I can - there's a lot of interruptions going on around here right now)!

 

I would like to be able to provide a score quickly. But for now, I don't have time.

I see with pleasure in any case that this forum likes not to stay on the surface of things. So I take this into account and try to do it as soon as possible.

Thank you again for your message!
 

11 hours ago, Thatguy v2.0 said:

very

very

very

 

...cool music 😄

I've listened to these pieces a few times now. I REALLY wish you had scores available for us to dissect and follow along, but I'm guessing you use a DAW for input and they don't make the most reliable scores. 

Could you possibly delve into your compositional style and tendencies? Sure, I'm using my ear to kind of figure out your developmental procedure, but I'm curious on your take. 

For one, I LOVE how you use the orchestra. I love the modern take on prioritizing color and scarcity over bombastic romantic-era textures. Your two pieces never fail to deliver in this regard, and they delight and flourish throughout their entirety. I'm reminded of the large swaths of color and texture of the impressionistic composers, and although I don't hear too much relation in language, perhaps it's an influence in style and content?

I will say, that when restricted to an ensemble, there's a sort of cohesion that takes effect in the amount of color available. A certain logic. Just be wary of your writing in the DAW, as colors can stream in and out, but it's nice when they make sense. For instance, if one instrument has a melodic line, but then isn't used ever again. Not saying your music does this, but it's just a trap I sometimes hear when listening to a "cinematic orchestral experience", like these pieces. 

I appreciate you offering us two well written pieces in this post as your introduction (and btw, welcome!!!), but keep in mind if feedback to grow as a composer is your goal, your music will be more digestible if separated with their own posts. And if you have more pieces composed that you're willing to share, space them out. A dump of several pieces at once tends to go unnoticed by most (except my main man @Henry Ng Tsz Kiu, you can count on him), and with the quality of your work, I would hate that each thoughtful presentation of your piece doesn't receive the attention it deserves. 

Overall, outstanding display of your compositional prowess, and again, welcome to the community! I'm glad you made the most of your Covid experience and turned back to composing, as at least I am very grateful to hear your style and talent resurface into wonderful works of art. You seem like you really know your stuff, especially in production value of your music. I strongly encourage you to poke around in our forums and offer any advice you deem fit; many members here could really learn a lot from your insight into composition and most would welcome any criticism you might share. 

Thanks for sharing, I look forward to hearing more of your works you grace here in the future!

 

Hello! For my part, I literally fell off my chair when I read your message! However, I allowed myself to delete some "Very" so as not to saturate the computer flavors of the forum. So thank you merrci, thank you, thank you....

Regarding the issue of scores, unfortunately, for the moment these are only manuscripts on 3 or 4 musical staff with indications of instrumentation. I then enter the voices in the Daw, with different keyboards (either a clavinova for the piano parts for example, or with a small master keyboard, for orchestral parts that do not require a large ambitus). At this point, therefore, I try to make some attempts to recover the midi games, but I think it would be faster to start directly from a blank page under Muse score (which I occasionally use) because the quantification errors are too huge despite the simplification tools as you imagine to be all corrected and the waste of time is too great.I think about these questions, of course, but for the moment, I lack time because my job is taking over for the coming months in my free time.

For musical styles, and concerning these two pieces presented here, there are all the influences that we all have in mind and that accompany our music journey: chosta, or Dutilleux, or many others, influences that are not always conscious (except the quote of 4 notes of Chosta's concerto, I don't know where in Reached! Haha). Some come from childhood or youth, or works encountered during studies, others more specifically that have been useful to me to find out for specific purposes (how Hindemith uses the clarinet in his concerto, how Mahler orchestrates the last dark brass ringtone of the last movement of his 6th which was used to me for a passage from another piece that is on YT, "the coming The ipad, another thing that did not exist in my youth and that allows me to take my music library with me everywhere). Not to mention Streaming subscriptions that are blessings for studies, while I remember the huge evil I had to find a record and a score of a Sibelius symphony when I was a student. Imagine, the dream of having almost everything that is recorded present every second in your pocket, in a device that is normally used to call and that is connected to the whole world. It's science fiction, I tell you!... (and the price it cost me at the time for a Schubert opera that I chose to analyze and which must have come from the end of the world, Fierrabras, if you know...)

Orchestration:

The most interesting courses were for me the analysis of the scores of Ravel, Mahler, or Messiaen. I remember in my youth the intensive work to orchestrate pieces for Bartok's Piano, Microcosmos. Or Messiaen's piano preludes, if possible respecting the styles of the composers. Or just watch how Wagner does it in Lohengrin!

You raise a very interesting question about the distribution of instruments that can become clumsiness indeed. For me, some instruments are a bit like surprises, gifts of the musical nature. For example, I can't resolve to abuse the bass clarinet. When it appears, it's a different world. She must never become a bassoon... The same goes for the English horn that reminds me of certain nocturnal atmospheres and is in no way a serious Oboe, but has its own voice, and I'm not even talking about the few incursions of the low flute that reminds me more of the sometimes questionable orientalism of a Ravel than a flute. So, I totally agree with you. Both the jobs of these particular soloists must never be free or incongruous, and they must not be dissolved in banality.

Moreover, the same is probably true for any solo passage entrusted to an instrument that may be less rare than those mentioned above. The bassoon is all kinds of characters in our unconscious, and not only in Proko. The horn, I don't even talk about it, (and it has nothing to do with the trombone) in short, we know all this. We also know that instruments can play in turn the main role of the scenario or a secondary role, or simply do figuration, or even just serve as an element of technique.

Another very interesting question that requires not to rely too much on piano composition in the idea of orchestrating: The piano does not have the same animation needs. If we write on the piano and orchestrate literally, we have something that seems to skate in the orchestra. Which seems static. The piano has its own fields of force that are not the same as in the orchestra. On the contrary, it requires to be constantly animated by various means (but it may be a little long to develop here, I will come back to it).

In short, my modesty may suffer from your praise and it's not good for my knees, because at my age we have osteoarthritis. When you become immoderate, the head swells and this accentuates pain in the ankles and knees! (I don't know if it's fun to read in English...)

Sorry, I've been far too long! And with all this, I don't take enough time to listen to read and comment on the works posted on the forum. I promise, I'll start as soon as possible.

Thanks again,

K.

Not related to the music but I love the way you present it on video.


• First piece: You have a very particular style and from the sample I've listened (which is maybe insufficient) I would say that you have a great talent for crafting very immersive atmospheres. Sure, the libraries may help, but from my experience listening and reviewing here and there there's sometimes a very thin line between successful moods and nonsense. Not your case. On top of that, if it wasn't for the chapter switch I would have not noticed the transition between the Berceuse and the 2nd cadence, it sounded THAT smooth to my ears. The last movement/section was my favourite one in this first piece. Let's dive into the second one.

• Second piece: again the sounds are incredible. Outside of the paper I'm a total ignorant so despite it might be not as difficult as I imagine, I know nothing about how to properly use samples to create these very neat sounds in any of my pieces; I am glad you are knowledgeable in that because you really make your pieces come alive this way. This second piece is daring in some parts, you even used a whistle but it didn't feel "out" of the piece. Perhaps it might be cause of my recent illness (nothing severe) but this sounds peaceful to me despite its obvious eerie aura in most of the piece but, perhaps, on the final movement (?). 

Ah, and regarding this:

4 hours ago, Krisp said:

I don't take enough time to listen to read and comment on the works posted on the forum. I promise, I'll start as soon as possible.

Just do not worry, each one at their pace!  I can guarantee you, though, that this place is FULL of jewels of various styles and lengths.

Kind regards,
Daniel–Ømicrón.

 

6 hours ago, Omicronrg9 said:

Not related to the music but I love the way you present it on video.


• First piece: You have a very particular style and from the sample I've listened (which is maybe insufficient) I would say that you have a great talent for crafting very immersive atmospheres. Sure, the libraries may help, but from my experience listening and reviewing here and there there's sometimes a very thin line between successful moods and nonsense. Not your case. On top of that, if it wasn't for the chapter switch I would have not noticed the transition between the Berceuse and the 2nd cadence, it sounded THAT smooth to my ears. The last movement/section was my favourite one in this first piece. Let's dive into the second one.

• Second piece: again the sounds are incredible. Outside of the paper I'm a total ignorant so despite it might be not as difficult as I imagine, I know nothing about how to properly use samples to create these very neat sounds in any of my pieces; I am glad you are knowledgeable in that because you really make your pieces come alive this way. This second piece is daring in some parts, you even used a whistle but it didn't feel "out" of the piece. Perhaps it might be cause of my recent illness (nothing severe) but this sounds peaceful to me despite its obvious eerie aura in most of the piece but, perhaps, on the final movement (?). 

Ah, and regarding this:

Just do not worry, each one at their pace!  I can guarantee you, though, that this place is FULL of jewels of various styles and lengths.

Kind regards,
Daniel–Ømicrón.

 

 

Thank you for reading!

Your last sentence is quite enlightening of my current choices: my pieces written in my youth were all dark in color, evolved in a rather black and wounded universe. I wanted in my last compositions to draw less depressing perspectives!

So, if Reached Alert is probably still quite heckled, with a rather heated theme and laments of the cello, I also did not want to fall into despair but to keep a scherzo, playful, and joyful side in his sneers, all the same.

This is even more true in Lucid REM which is not at all a dark drama as you note. I set up some dives in depths but the idea was always to go towards thinning. (so thank you very much for having it seems to me to have noted these points).

Hi @Krisp,

I've listened to the Lucid REM. I have to say I love this even more than the Reached Alert!!

The first movement for me is so magical with the piccolo opening, triangles, celesta, and your instrumentation is amazing to create this world of fantasy. The piano is used greatly as well by using it as an orchestral force.

The second movement comes in as a shock to that magical world, very nice for me with the collapse by piano, descending scales of harp and devil's laugh in bassoon. The low brasses work so well in the G sharp minor to create that mysterious and sinister atmosphere. What a contrast it is with the first movement. That piano playing and all those devils around it is amazing, and I wish it is longer!

Third movement is contemplative in mood with the contemplative A flat major but it dissolves quickly to the Messiaen like high pitch violin and the harmony. The whistle in 3:50 and the haha in voice indeed scare my sXXX away!!

Nice English horn opening in the fourth movement. That's the real contemplative movement and I like it. Around 5:00 the piano enters nicely with occasional devil's voice in high pitch violin (with sul ponticello and harmonics??) That celesta in 6:36 reminds me Bartok's Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta even it only appears briefly here. 

For me the fifth movement is a very nice ending with all those confusion after a pretended resolution to all those sinister atmosphere. It's just the silence after it too long for me for the ending of the video!

I enjoy this very much with your prowess on orchestration, mixing and harmony. Very happy you join the forum and hopefully you will become a regular member and post more pieces here!

Henry

4 hours ago, Henry Ng Tsz Kiu said:

Hi @Krisp,

I've listened to the Lucid REM. I have to say I love this even more than the Reached Alert!!

The first movement for me is so magical with the piccolo opening, triangles, celesta, and your instrumentation is amazing to create this world of fantasy. The piano is used greatly as well by using it as an orchestral force.

The second movement comes in as a shock to that magical world, very nice for me with the collapse by piano, descending scales of harp and devil's laugh in bassoon. The low brasses work so well in the G sharp minor to create that mysterious and sinister atmosphere. What a contrast it is with the first movement. That piano playing and all those devils around it is amazing, and I wish it is longer!

Third movement is contemplative in mood with the contemplative A flat major but it dissolves quickly to the Messiaen like high pitch violin and the harmony. The whistle in 3:50 and the haha in voice indeed scare my sXXX away!!

Nice English horn opening in the fourth movement. That's the real contemplative movement and I like it. Around 5:00 the piano enters nicely with occasional devil's voice in high pitch violin (with sul ponticello and harmonics??) That celesta in 6:36 reminds me Bartok's Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta even it only appears briefly here. 

For me the fifth movement is a very nice ending with all those confusion after a pretended resolution to all those sinister atmosphere. It's just the silence after it too long for me for the ending of the video!

I enjoy this very much with your prowess on orchestration, mixing and harmony. Very happy you join the forum and hopefully you will become a regular member and post more pieces here!

Henry

 

Your comment couldn't make me any more pleasure! Thank you for listening so attentively!

So, I think you have very well understood the program of this fantasy. A dreamlike world, more or less lucid, more or less controlled, that can tip over at any time at the border of the nightmare. This is indeed what happens at the beginning of the second part. Is it intuitive on your part when you evoke the laughter of the devil (bassons, bass clarinet and contrebasson), but it is not for nothing that I called this cauldron "the bearer of light" (Lucifer in Latin...) (I thought the allusion would remain discreet, but your sagacity highlighted my little esoteric incartade, which was for me a "clin d'oeil", I also have fun with some concealments that amuse me a lot...).

The "choral" part of all-classic harmonization is suddenly broken by this whistle that throws a kind of sarcastic fanfare in rhythmic superposition (the 2 of the military march superimposed on the 3 of the choral). I thought of a noisy parade scene, interrupting the almost dormant meditation of the faithful, like a merging.

For the next part, introduced by a few soli, it is a piano meditation, slightly punctuated by the strings in harmonics, sul ponticello, mixed with a flottando, effectively combined with vibra, glock, celesta, harp and tubular bells in the distance (a slight tam too).

Indeed, the very end (last note) of last movment may be a little long to make it heard. It is in fact after the solo of low flute and flute of a tenuto note to the violins 2 that goes al niente except the viola solo that ends alone. The compression of Youtube is not ideal to hear this detail perhaps.

In any case, your attentive word orders me to continue! I'm going to run out of time, but I'm currently on a new attempt and I'm scratching my fly legs as soon as possible... (As you can check on the attached photos! I'm working on it... It will be for orchestra and the solo clarinet will have a major role).

Dear @Krisp,

31 minutes ago, Krisp said:

Is it intuitive on your part when you evoke the laughter of the devil (bassons, bass clarinet and contrebasson), but it is not for nothing that I called this cauldron "the bearer of light" (Lucifer in Latin...)

I always think contrabassoon and bass clarinet capable of devil presentations. That contrabassoon in Grieg's Peer Gynt always appear sinister for me!! I do intuitively get the devil content here, I don't know why!!🤪 I didn't read the name of the movement at all since I don't know any French!!

31 minutes ago, Krisp said:

Indeed, the very end (last note) of last movment may be a little long to make it heard. It is in fact after the solo of low flute and flute of a tenuto note to the violins 2 that goes al niente except the viola solo that ends alone. The compression of Youtube is not ideal to hear this detail perhaps.

I will try my best to listen to the ending once more!!

31 minutes ago, Krisp said:

In any case, your attentive word orders me to continue! I'm going to run out of time, but I'm currently on a new attempt and I'm scratching my fly legs as soon as possible... (As you can check on the attached photos! I'm working on it... It will be for orchestra and the solo clarinet will have a major role).

Wow!!! Your handwriting is very clear. I don't expect you to use handwritten sheet at all!! I assume you use computer program since you mix those sounds so well!!

You can look at my notebook for my current piece. Quite messy comparing to yours!! Though I hope it's not as messy as Beethoven's!!! I always love to see composers sharing their notebooks! That makes their works more real for me.

Thanks for your feedback!

Henry

2 hours ago, Henry Ng Tsz Kiu said:

 

 

You can look at my notebook for my current piece. Quite messy comparing to yours!! Though I hope it's not as messy as Beethoven's!!! I always love to see composers sharing their notebooks! That makes their works more real for me.

Thanks for your feedback!

Henry

 

Oh, I wouldn't be able to write directly to the computer! I'm from the previous century! I should buy a spiral notebook like yours (it reminds me of my writing classes where these models of notebooks were mandatory). Mine is a notepad but the pages stand out. Which is not very practical in the long run.

Oh yes... Beethoven's manuscripts... Let's hope that we will not suffer from his hearing impairment in any case!