Dictation Issues...

Hey, does anyone have any advice for someone who has trouble hearing little musical phrases out loud (like when they are presented by a teacher, about 8-15 common time measures usually, to give an idea of length) and then notating them before you forget them? Just any little things that help you maintain them in your head or get them down?

My brain just shuts down after I hear a measure or two and by the time I've heard the entire thing, I forgot all of it. I can write down what's in MY head but when it's being presented to me out of nowhere from another I have trouble maintaining it in my thoughts long enough to write it down.

I'm not sure if you guys have had to do this a lot and maybe have learned some ways to make the process more efficient than waiting for ages for the teacher to play it again....and again...and again...etc. I'd love to try anything.

Hey, does anyone have any advice for someone who has trouble hearing little musical phrases out loud (like when they are presented by a teacher, about 8-15 common time measures usually, to give an idea of length) and then notating them before you forget them? Just any little things that help you maintain them in your head or get them down?

My brain just shuts down after I hear a measure or two and by the time I've heard the entire thing, I forgot all of it. I can write down what's in MY head but when it's being presented to me out of nowhere from another I have trouble maintaining it in my thoughts long enough to write it down.

I'm not sure if you guys have had to do this a lot and maybe have learned some ways to make the process more efficient than waiting for ages for the teacher to play it again....and again...and again...etc. I'd love to try anything.

You mean actually dictate the piece as it's played?

You mean actually dictate the piece as it's played?

If by dictate, you mean transcribe, then yes.

I'm a scrafty transciber - takes me ages to lift stuff, off recordings no less. I'd fail very quickly having to to it live.

How complex are you dealing with here? a single melody, two, three parts? counterlines? I guess figuring some way of dividing it into manageable portions - split it into melody/rhythm. Leave off any unnecessary details (stems, bah! Who needs 'em)

...OR, maybe try not writing anything and focus on committing the thing to memory.

...I dunno. Good luck though!

Are you doing one-voice or two-voice dictation?

A trick I've found (for two-voice) is to focus on only one line at a time, so you don't have to divide your attention.

For one-voice, it's good to write it down as soon as you even think you know what it is. You can always fine-tune what you have later. Maybe, even, first focus on rhythms, then put the notes in after. I took my ear-training class last year, and the sub always had us write the rhythms first, which seemed to help some people.

Good luck - you can do it! :whistling:

If you're being played something more than once, then I suggest focusing in on rhythm first. I usually place it in small little notes above the staff. Then, I would go for the notes. Again, depending on how many times its played, you can zero in on certain measures (just hope that you don't have a bunch of people humming in your ear like my theory class.)

Another thing is to just practice both intervals and doing notation. They really go hand in hand.

(just hope that you don't have a bunch of people humming in your ear like my theory class.)

grrrrr I HATE that...it's SO distracting. I plug my ears after the teacher plays it.

We are just doing single voice dictation right now.

Thank you all for the advice. Tomorrow in lab I'm going to try that "rhythm first" thing, it sounds like a good idea. I like the idea of placing it over the staff.

Oh yes, the more my interval recognition speed is improving the easier this stuff gets! Memorization...that, I need to work on. :P

Oh and Nick...good idea, trying to even GUESS what it is and then fine tuning it. I like that.

Hey, I can't wait 'til class tomorrow.

EarMaster 5.0 NEW! - Interactive Ear Training software

there is nothing magical you can do really. Just exercise.

now , what works for me is to play the first measure in my brain as am listening to the 2nd measure.

good luck!

thanks, javi.

ullllll. Today was a disaster. The writing out the rhythm thing did not work for me, even when I attempted to just write out little symbols for the rhythm. Maybe I should give it another try.

This time I was just a mess though, I was the last one to leave class because I could not get the dictation right. The TA seemed to feel really bad for me, LOL. I was so pathetic.

What I need to do is find a study buddy to make up little ditties and play them for me to try to notate.

or try that online stuff, hm, not a bad idea as well.

My brain just shuts down after I hear a measure or two and by the time I've heard the entire thing, I forgot all of it. I can write down what's in MY head but when it's being presented to me out of nowhere from another I have trouble maintaining it in my thoughts long enough to write it down.

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Do you memorise music routinely? Or do you depend alot on reading off the page?

Your memory is like a muscle. If you excersise it in music, it will strengthen. Practice concentrating on whatever music you hear, be it on the radio, at your school or whatever, whenever you hear it, and repeating back, in detail, what you hear. The more detailed, the better.

There are a good deal of rock musicians, specifically guitarists, who are poor at reading music but have an excellent memory and can pick out things very fast specifically because they have had to rely on memory and ear instead of written music. I know, because I used to be one.

This will sound really silly, but I think games like "Bop it" that I played in the past helped me with my memory. Not that I'm suggesting that you go out and play Bop it, but eh...

Are you trying to write everything down at once? If you're having problems remembering stuff, focus on one or two bars at a time. If you going to do the rhythm, I suggest doing as the music plays (though I might be making light of it due to my percussion background.)

But really, the most important thing is to not get frustrated. That goes for any long term task. Just take it in chunks if you feel overwhelmed.

*cough* digital recorder *cough*

What? ;)

Or perhaps a digital recorder, come to think of it...they're smaller. Unless of course there's not much time. Which is likely true.

Or perhaps a digital recorder...

But probably frowned upon for a class devoted to enhancing ones transcription skill...

IMHO

Just don't focus too much...just listen.

You'll remember easier as a whole than by trying to figure out the notes one by one.

o, more great advice.

thank you, everyone!

I love thi place :P Oh crap, the letter after R on my keyboard eem to be broken. My laptop really need help. nake. oda. tereogram. paghetti and meatball. I'm orry, It' making my pot look tupid.

This will sound really silly, but I think games like "Bop it" that I played in the past helped me with my memory. Not that I'm suggesting that you go out and play Bop it, but eh...

Bop it...i that like imon? Crap, the tupid letter after r. Okay, let try that again.

I[letter after r] "Bop it" like "[letter after R]imon?"

I ued to play imon with my iter.

n/m, I'm turning my computer off now ;p lol.

Copy and paste the 's'. Ctrl c, ctrl v. No donkey involved. Oops. 'S'. :P

I thought about it, but decided to just be complicated about the matter. :P

(I got it working again! I just restarted the computer. yesssssssssssss!!!)

Yes, Bop it's like Simon, though I hesitated calling it that because I thought that I was calling it the wrong thing.

I thought about it, but decided to just be complicated about the matter. :P

Women...

hahahaha :P

Women...

lol. :toothygrin:

Mozart transcribed an entire Oratorio perfectly, note-for-note, after listening to the piece once. I believe he was 12 at the time.

Did Mozart just have great genetics and a great memory, or did he train? I would suggest that the latter was more important. He didn't just train more than everyone else; he trained differently. Pitch recognition and structure recognition are the only skills you need for listening transcription, but there are some related skills that serious musicians would do well to master. Some tips:

1) Mozart had an outstanding sense of absolute (or "perfect") pitch, which added a third dimension to his ability to recognize and retain musical information. You can learn this from tutorials such as the one at PerfectPitch.com. I taught it to myself in middle school.

2) Mozart could read a score and hear the entire thing in his head. This makes use of three skills:

a. Study of advanced reading techniques (not just speed reading; more like photo reading). I don't know how this skill might carry over into music reading, but I plan to find out in the next couple months.

b. Study of advanced memory retention techniques (see here for an example). Another development skill I plan to work on.

c. Relative pitch (college ear training courses offer this, and most piano players are pretty good at it. Train yourself in front of a piano.)

d. Thorough understanding of counterpoint and chordal structures (much of which is memorized). When [classical] music is well-formed and you can recognize its structures, you only need to memorize the sequence types and their orders, rather than memorize notes. See writings of Fux, Palestrina, Schoenberg's "Theory of Harmony", and any books on musical form.

e. Excellent sightreading ability - formed by practice as well as all the above skills.

I'm convinced that devoting onself to studying these skills properly would give most composers better skills than they could get by going to school for a music degree, as I did.

Mozart transcribed an entire Oratorio perfectly, note-for-note, after listening to the piece once. I believe he was 12 at the time.

I find anecdotes like this very hard to believe.

As a matter of fact, Mozart was not alone in his ability to do this kind of thing. When Alexander Borodin died suddenly and unexpectedly of a heart attack, he had composed almost the entirety of the opera Prince Igor in his head, but there were many parts he had not set to paper. A few days before his death, Borodin had played much of the opera at the piano for a small group of musical colleagues, including Alexander Glazunov, while describing his plans for orchestration. Shortly afterward, Glazunov took on the formidable task of completing the opera. He wrote out the entire overture from memory, having heard it once - and to make the feat more impressive, keep in mind that when at the time he heard it he did not know that he would later be reconstructing the piece, so he probably did not make any special effort to remember it. (Contrast this to Mozart, who attended a performance of the oratorio for the express purpose of obtaining the score after being refused permission to see it.)

Of course, Mozart was dealing with diversity of pitch cambers in his particular memorizational feat, whereas Glazunov was listening to a piano transcription. I'm not sure which of the two feats would be easier. Correct pitching would be a major faciltator; it's probably also easiest for one to memorize a work for instrument or ensemble type that one most frequently works/listens to.

I've often found that my ability to memorize something has little to do with whether I'm actively seeking to memorize it. My anecdotal experience and heresay suggests that advanced retention techniques are best facilitated through looking at a work wholistically, rather than being consciously obsessed with the details. So Mozart may not have had a particular advantage. I am encouraged by hearing of others repeating a similar feat. (And Robinjessome, I have a written source confirming the Mozart story - I'll see if I can find the book at home).