Piano Sonata no.2 in A-flat Major, 2nd Movement

Hi everyone!

I've decided to post another old work here. The Piano Sonata no.2 in A-flat major (2015) is composed right after the completion of the first Piano Sonata in A major, Pastoral. It's a work in five movements and I will say it's the quickest composition ever for me since I finish the 1st draft of the first three movements within a week and the whole piece within three weeks. For me this is a free flowing one after the strictly cohesive first Piano Sonata, and honestly I love this one more since it displays more real emotions here. The style overall is still very Beethovanian and I am sorry Vince!

I choose to post the 2nd movement first because I am really happy to make a fairly good recording in 18th February and I really want to post this even without having a good recording for the 1st movement first. For me this Sonata is not that motivically cohesive as my other pieces is, so the order is not really too crucial here.

The 2nd movement itself acts as a counterpart to the serene and motivational first movement with its fiery denial power to the beauty of the previous movement (you will get it when I post the first movement!). I take the inspiration from the finale of Chopin's 2nd Piano Sonata since I am always fascinated by how Chopin wrote with two unison lines and produced such excitement and fury. I also use Sonata form for this diminutive movement as I want to experiment using it within a small time span as in Chopin's movement: 

00:00 (b.1) 1st Subject, Exposition, in c minor

00:16 (b. 21) 2nd Subject, Exposition, in f minor

00:27 (b.35) Development

00:47 (b.61) 1st Subject, Recapitulation, in c minor

00:54 (b.70) 2nd Subject, Recapitulation, in c minor

01:11 (b.93): Coda, based on the motive in the first movement (yet to be posted). That D flat minor surprise, muahaha, is to prepare the Fourth movement which is in C sharp minor, my favourite movement of the piece.

I also take much inspiration from the first movement of Beethoven's op.111 since it's one of my favourite Beethoven Piano Sonata. I even quote exactly in b.85! (From b.25 of that movement) 

The overall planning of the movements will be disclosed after the completion of this post, and I will keep practicing those movements (as well as the movements of the First Piano Sonata), so stay tuned!

Here is the pdf score and the mp3:

Piano Sonata no.2 Second mov.pdf

Here is the youtube video if you are interested!

P.S Thanks Vince for suggesting me to upload the movement first!

P.P.S my favourite recording of Beethoven's op.111 is by Igor Levit since he's a god especially playing late Beethoven sonatas:

Hope you enjoy the music and the day!!

Henry

Damn Henry, you're quite the player! I loved that you have a live recording of this, your playing is ferocious! Masterful job at portraying the music, you did an excellent job bringing these fiery notes to life. 

I'm very curious with the other movements, as it's not always common to have a dramatic and very fast second movement. I'm reminded of Shostakovich's 10th symphony, where he had a decently long 1st movement followed my his heavy metal short second movement. I'd like to comment on the nature of your Chopin 2nd Sonata coda type of texture, but it's impossible without hearing the other sections of your sonata. 

I'm really glad you mapped out the form for us, as at first I couldn't really discern the different themes. But after a few listens, it was quite clear. I really like how you took Sonata-allegro form and compacted it into a minute and a half of music. Very interesting! I don't think I've heard that done before too often, but it was really cool. 

Very well crafted work you have here Henry, and I'm amazed at how great of a player you are. This was phenomenally performed, wonderful job in your recording!!

On 2/28/2023 at 3:16 AM, Henry Ng Tsz Kiu said:

The style overall is still very Beethovanian and I am sorry Vince!

Oh wait does he dislike Beet? Isn't that against the rules or something?

The recording doesn't portray the ff but that's not important, better microphones will come along I'm sure. The performance is so nice anyway, we don't see somebody playing his own piece with the plus of it being NOT EASY. 

It of course reminds to the Sonata 32 Mvt. I a lot, but it's more extended and harmonically different despite they both share key. I'm not too convinced by some passages where the underlying melody blurs a little. Apart from that it was a very intense listening that does not disappear the more I press the replay button, and that's another positive point I'd give to it. Still, the full work needs to be checked for a complete and more accurate judgement so I look forward to listen to it!

Thank you for sharing your work Henry, I hope it gets more views in the future. It definitely deserves it.

Kind regards,
Daniel–Ømicrón.

 

Hi Vince! Thank you so much for your reviee, badge and promotion! I deeply apperciate that!

7 hours ago, Thatguy v2.0 said:

I'm very curious with the other movements, as it's not always common to have a dramatic and very fast second movement. I'm reminded of Shostakovich's 10th symphony, where he had a decently long 1st movement followed my his heavy metal short second movement. I'd like to comment on the nature of your Chopin 2nd Sonata coda type of texture, but it's impossible without hearing the other sections of your sonata

The first movement begins on a slow tempo and this movement is the only movement that is fiery. I really hope I can make those recordings as soon as possible! When composing this particular I had tried a completely different method. I had done zero planning and allowed my heart and mind to freely flow on what I want to have. This results in utterly different characters in all 5 movements and can be a problem like what Schumann commented on Chopin's Second Piano Sonata, "four (five here) of Chopin's maddest children under the same roof"!

I use this short movement to deny the beauty and positives of the first movement, which allow the music to finally resolve trickily in a Taoistic manner in the final movement. (Again the theme developed later on in the Clarinet Quintet: to accept and play with the negatives to have hope)

7 hours ago, Thatguy v2.0 said:

I'm really glad you mapped out the form for us, as at first I couldn't really discern the different themes. But after a few listens, it was quite clear. I really like how you took Sonata-allegro form and compacted it into a minute and a half of music. Very interesting! I don't think I've heard that done before too often, but it was really cool. 

I use Sonata form sort of to compensate the lack of sonata form of the first movement, which is in a simple ternary form. As I've said I freakingly love the finale of Chopin's 2nd Sonata and I wanted to try compress the form as well!

7 hours ago, Thatguy v2.0 said:

Damn Henry, you're quite the player! I loved that you have a live recording of this, your playing is ferocious! Masterful job at portraying the music, you did an excellent job bringing these fiery notes to life. 

7 hours ago, Thatguy v2.0 said:

and I'm amazed at how great of a player you are. This was phenomenally performed, wonderful job in your recording!!

Haha I still find many slips in the recording but I've tried my best already, so I am satisfied with it!

Thanks so much for your review and appreciation, Vince!

Henry

6 hours ago, Omicronrg9 said:

Oh wait does he dislike Beet? Isn't that against the rules or something?

Haha he remarked in his review of my Clarinet Quintet that he wanted me to be more "me", but this is an old work so I can't change my past Beethovanian self!!😅

6 hours ago, Omicronrg9 said:

The recording doesn't portray the ff but that's not important, better microphones will come along I'm sure.

I just use my phone to record. I will consider using some better devices later on for better recordings when needed. Thanks for your advice!

6 hours ago, Omicronrg9 said:

The performance is so nice anyway, we don't see somebody playing his own piece with the plus of it being NOT EASY. 

This is for sure noy an easy piece but I don't play very well here, and I remember @Sean Brown play extremely virtuosically in his Romance in D!

6 hours ago, Omicronrg9 said:

I'm not too convinced by some passages where the underlying melody blurs a little.

Yes especially those low registeral passage, though the blurring sound may contribute some confusion for the music which is not bad for me!

6 hours ago, Omicronrg9 said:

Apart from that it was a very intense listening that does not disappear the more I press the replay button, and that's another positive point I'd give to it.

I don't know why I compose this intense. Usually I compose overly long music in an hour and this one is in a minute and a half. I am happy I can achieve this kinds of effect using this little time span! Or maybe the diminutive time contributes to the intense listening, I don't know!

6 hours ago, Omicronrg9 said:

Still, the full work needs to be checked for a complete and more accurate judgement so I look forward to listen to it!

Thank you! Please stay tuned and I will try my best practicing the movemebts which are quite diffucult in their own ways as well!

6 hours ago, Omicronrg9 said:

Thank you for sharing your work Henry, I hope it gets more views in the future. It definitely deserves it.

Haha thank you. I hope so but I don't urge it, since usually it's more frequent to post own compositions than giving reviews here and I think that's perfectly normal. That's why I really treasure every reviews here! I will never forget your legendary post on my Quintet! I myself do enjoy reviewing other people's work though!

Thank you for your kind words and review, Daniel!

Henry

This is impressive. I find the piece coherent. My mind went more to the Rachmaninov of the etudes. Perhaps I don’t have enough beethovenian references.

14 hours ago, Luis Hernández said:

This is impressive. I find the piece coherent. My mind went more to the Rachmaninov of the etudes. Perhaps I don’t have enough beethovenian references.

Thanks for your compliment Luis! I am not too familiar with Rachmaniov's music but I am happy my piece make you think of him! I just have too many Beethovanian references in my old music that I should reduce it in the future!

Henry

A wild flurry of notes!  I wish I could hear how it connects to the other movements with that theme you bring in at the very end which sounds very dramatic despite (or maybe because of) the sudden tempo change (and also the sudden Db minor chord).  I do wonder how you managed to play some of this so smoothly with some of the very wide leaps between figures which are a 7th away from each other like in measure 5.  You're a really skilled pianist!  Looking forward to hearing the rest of the sonata!

Hi Peter,

Thanks for listening and your compliment!

6 hours ago, PeterthePapercomPoser said:

I do wonder how you managed to play some of this so smoothly with some of the very wide leaps between figures which are a 7th away from each other like in measure 5.  You're a really skilled pianist!

Haha it takes me months to play like this! Don't know why that freaking young Henry composed this sort of difficult piece!

For me the 7ths are not really difficult since I have quite a big hand, able to extend as far as 11 keys. I use 1432 for b.5 R.H. and sometimes 1543 and it's not really hard for me. For me the hardest passages are b.21-24 and 70-73! But I have to admit my hands will get really tired after every playing of this movement!

6 hours ago, PeterthePapercomPoser said:

(and also the sudden Db minor chord).

I like that quotation of theme in b.93 as it mixes c minor with Ab major, thus the D flat minor appears as the tonic after dominant Ab major.

6 hours ago, PeterthePapercomPoser said:

I wish I could hear how it connects to the other movements with that theme you bring in at the very end which sounds very dramatic

Umm... Looks like I have to disclose some passages from other movements...

First, after you ask me this, I suddenly find that the 2nd movement is subconcious  quotation from a secondary theme of the 1st movement during an episode:

The theme is used explicitly in mov. 1 and 3 as main theme, mov.5 as quotation and mov.4 subconciously. It begins the 1st movement in a serene manner like this:

And it begins the 3rd mov:

I hope I can have the recordings asap!!

Henry

You wanted a contrast between movements, and I'd say you achieved it!  This was a great exercise in doing a lot with just two lines.  I do like the idea of putting a musical constraint on yourself as a composer to see what that prompts in terms of creative solutions.  

Because of the speed, the accents you've written in really help the listener keep track of what's going on.  I actually turned the YouTube speed down to 75% so I could get a better sense of the harmonies for a second listen.  

I enjoyed the shift from four note groupings to three note groups at bar 86, and crashing right into an ending with a totally different character on the last page.  It really works well.  

Well done and what a bear to play!!

Hi @pateceramics,

Thanks for your review!

8 hours ago, pateceramics said:

You wanted a contrast between movements, and I'd say you achieved it!  This was a great exercise in doing a lot with just two lines.  I do like the idea of putting a musical constraint on yourself as a composer to see what that prompts in terms of creative solutions.  

I do want to have a contrast between the first two, like in the second I want to have the inspirational power denied since the problem won't be solved only with inspirations. The real dark power will be in the 4th mov and solution in the 5th, cunningly.

I don't know why but I really want to try the texture of the finale of Chopin's 2nd Piano Sonata, and I am happy you find it work!

8 hours ago, pateceramics said:

Because of the speed, the accents you've written in really help the listener keep track of what's going on.  I actually turned the YouTube speed down to 75% so I could get a better sense of the harmonies for a second listen.  

Yes the accents are crucial here. Turning down the speed to 75% can be "dangerous" as said by the "Quickest Violinist in the World", since you will find more slips there!

8 hours ago, pateceramics said:

I enjoyed the shift from four note groupings to three note groups at bar 86, and crashing right into an ending with a totally different character on the last page.  It really works well.  

The shift is a direct quotation from Beethoven's op.111 as I just want to have that here, don't know why. The Db minor surprise can be regarded as the proper announcement of the key which will be the main hurdle of the sonata and the tonic in the 4th mov.

8 hours ago, pateceramics said:

Well done and what a bear to play!!

That really takes me much time to practice and record, but I am happy I have made it. Thank you for your compliment! Wish I can have the 3rd mov's recording asap.

Henry

I listened to the whole sonata just now on YT. I really loved it from start to finish, and the main reason why I did was because there's something really un-pretentious and "real" about your way of composing. I felt like I was just listening to you play in your living room, and that's a wonderful vibe to be able to give.

I may come back and speak more about what I heard, but some things I want to say off the bat regardless:

1) Wonderful playing! 2nd movement is downright nasty.

2) 1st movement reminds me a great deal of something Beethoven would write when in one of his "pastoral" moods.

3) I feel like you have a double-edged sword in your writing, at least based on this whole sonata. You show restraint and maturity in your writing, and that's so important. But the 4th movement is built up and alluded to right from the middle of the 1st movement, as clearly the C#m section is begging for development, and it works perfectly for a final movement. But you show so much restraint, that I think the 4th movement never really gets its opportunity to speak its mind. Something is bubbling under the surface, but never comes to the fore, and so something important is going unsaid as the piece ends. If you can't stand the thought of touching anything in the 4th movement, I understand, but it's just something to keep in mind in the future. Sometimes, the music just needs to be unafraid and courageous, and "speak its mind". You may be outright shocked at what lies within your own self if you allow that "brutal honesty" to manifest itself.

Thanks for sharing, this is a real work of art!

Hey @SergeOfArniVillage,

Thanks for your review!

1 hour ago, SergeOfArniVillage said:

1) Wonderful playing! 2nd movement is downright nasty.

Yup the music is real nasty. I don't know the 2015 Henry wrote such things this difficult LoL. But luckily it's playable and it does have some passion and urgency in the music.

1 hour ago, SergeOfArniVillage said:

2) 1st movement reminds me a great deal of something Beethoven would write when in one of his "pastoral" moods.

Actually the 1st Piano Sonata of mine (this is the second one) is named after Beethoven's "{Pastoral)! Here it's calm and serene so maybe you think it's pastoral too.

1 hour ago, SergeOfArniVillage said:

3) I feel like you have a double-edged sword in your writing, at least based on this whole sonata. You show restraint and maturity in your writing, and that's so important. But the 4th movement is built up and alluded to right from the middle of the 1st movement, as clearly the C#m section is begging for development, and it works perfectly for a final movement. But you show so much restraint, that I think the 4th movement never really gets its opportunity to speak its mind. Something is bubbling under the surface, but never comes to the fore, and so something important is going unsaid as the piece ends. If you can't stand the thought of touching anything in the 4th movement, I understand, but it's just something to keep in mind in the future. Sometimes, the music just needs to be unafraid and courageous, and "speak its mind". You may be outright shocked at what lies within your own self if you allow that "brutal honesty" to manifest itself.

Haha this is not the final movement of the sonata, as there will be a final 5th movement I've yet to practice and record. For me I conversely wanted to present that restraint feeling, and I think it speaks its mind. For me music must speak out of themselves, that's for sure, but the way to speak it out can be different. Just like in drama speaking in iambic pentameter will be a beautiful way to speak out the thoughts of the characters, but so is the free verse. The restrained feeling is what I want to express here as it's suppressed in the first three movements, and when it shows its real character here in the fourth movement it's like this. I will say I'm brutally honest in this one as I myself am a restrained person, and I was shocked to finish this movement when I was composing under a very happy and comfortable environment and period of my life. I hope this restrained feeling of C# minor can be solved in the final 5th movement! I'm sure I'll have the whole piece ends in a more complete sense if you know there's a fifth movement haha! Thanks so much for your advice though since it IS one of my problem that sometimes I cannot express myself in my music, even though I don't think this movement is an example of it!

Kind Regards,

Henry

LOL, if I could read, then I would have seen your opening post says "5 movements" 🤣 sadly, I can only count to four!

I look forward to hearing the next movement when it's available!

22 minutes ago, SergeOfArniVillage said:

LOL, if I could read, then I would have seen your opening post says "5 movements" 🤣 sadly, I can only count to four!

I look forward to hearing the next movement when it's available!

Haha, usually it should be in 4 movements but not for this one!!😝😝😝

The recording of the fifth movement may be a long time to produce since it's quite difficult and I have no time to practice!!! Reently I'm practicing real difficult accompaniment pieces, plus Vince's preludes to play! However, thanks for your looking forward to hearing the movement! This really gives me some mental power to practice my movement haha!

Henry

So would you consider that last mvmt the hardest? Because rn I’m also attempt my own work without much suscess… lol

46 minutes ago, PCC said:

So would you consider that last mvmt the hardest? Because rn I’m also attempt my own work without much suscess… lol

Well I will consider that they are difficult in their own ways (except the easier 3rd movememt ofc) ... The 1st you have to sing and the 32 notes passages can be exhausting for the LH. The 2nd movement is ofc monstrously hard for me. The 4th movement is hard since it's emotionally draining and it's easy to lose control, both your hands and emotion. The 5th mov is hard for me since it contains a lot of style and you have to adapt to each of them and change your playing technique and styles.

Everytime I play my pieces I have something to modify to make it more playable or the effect better! I don't stick to the score often and I play what I want, after all I AM the composer!

Btw I enjoy the way you play pokemon pieces by wearing formal attire! That's very professional looking while I always wear T shirts when recording! I find those suits and ties will tie my hands and arms up!

Henry

lol with my piano technique I would only be able to barely attempt this movement if at all. Fortunately a lot of unisons. Unfortunately it’s a moto perpetuo. Unfortunately there are non-unison places.

Actually for example if someone were to modify what I wrote to sound better not at the expense of losing the music’s original soul, I’m all for it. 

On the topic of subconscious cyclical elements among movements, I think it occurs more often than we’d think if someone were to really analyse. I mean how else would the famed composers write tonloads of music and publish them back to back all the time?

Anyway enough verbosity, I have heard Chopin’s finale being described as atonal. I don’t complete agree but I suppose that youtube video has a way of explaining it. This movement, however, very much relies on the tonality to deliver the urgency sense.

Again, always great to hear actual performances of compositions.  Reminds me of Alkan's Rondo Toccata from, his Op. 76 which similarly is a very fast movement where both hands play almost identical notes but two octaves apart.

Hi @PCC,

So above images are the score I have and I have some fingerings on it. This is very difficult for me as well as I had practiced that for months I think.

2 hours ago, PCC said:

lol with my piano technique I would only be able to barely attempt this movement if at all. Fortunately a lot of unisons. Unfortunately it’s a moto perpetuo. Unfortunately there are non-unison places.

Haha only very few places it's non-unison! Only b.5-7, 13-17, 63-69 are non-unison. But my hands do get very tired every time I play the movement.

2 hours ago, PCC said:

Actually for example if someone were to modify what I wrote to sound better not at the expense of losing the music’s original soul, I’m all for it. 

Yeah me too, and it's just that for this time the changing person is me the player and not entirely me the composer.

2 hours ago, PCC said:

On the topic of subconscious cyclical elements among movements, I think it occurs more often than we’d think if someone were to really analyse. I mean how else would the famed composers write tonloads of music and publish them back to back all the time?

Yup this is true!

2 hours ago, PCC said:

Anyway enough verbosity, I have heard Chopin’s finale being described as atonal. I don’t complete agree but I suppose that youtube video has a way of explaining it. This movement, however, very much relies on the tonality to deliver the urgency sense.

Chopin's finale is amazing and I do sometimes lose my sense of tonality in the middle of it, which makes it more amazing! This movement indeed relies much on tonality! It's more urgent, and also since I was not that varied in style then I believe.

Henry

1 hour ago, bkho said:

Again, always great to hear actual performances of compositions.  Reminds me of Alkan's Rondo Toccata from, his Op. 76 which similarly is a very fast movement where both hands play almost identical notes but two octaves apart.

Thx! I do think actual performance are needed here! Many posts their piano music in a computer rendition which sometimes ignoring the playability issue of the music, and it reduces the charm of it! I hope every piano music I compose is at least playable and I have the responsiblity to show it. 

Thx for your mentionimg of Alkan's piece! It's wonderful but I seldom listen to Alkan, if not near to never.

Henry

Really beautiful.

Of course we are projected into an earlier musical era, but I don't dislike it. As has been said, what is also very striking is the rage of your interpretation. You keep an extreme tension throughout this diabolical movement. It's an absolute cry of anger. I even find that the harshness of the recording is quite adequate with the subject and that a beautiful sound recording would not necessarily have been better to make your torment.

Bravo.

17 hours ago, Krisp said:

Really beautiful.

 

Of course we are projected into an earlier musical era, but I don't dislike it. As has been said, what is also very striking is the rage of your interpretation. You keep an extreme tension throughout this diabolical movement. It's an absolute cry of anger. I even find that the harshness of the recording is quite adequate with the subject and that a beautiful sound recording would not necessarily have been better to make your torment.

Thx Jean! The recording was recorded in a rush, as I remember I had finished recording it right before my student came in the room. I think this little urgent mood adds to the recording as well! The music is quite furious with tension which I don't know why, since I compose this sonata in a quite happy period when I was having a summer semester and happily studying German with my lovely classmates. That was one of my most enjoyable life in the university, but the second movement here and the fourth movement are one of the darkest music I had composed then.

Henry

Henry this is the coolest thing i heard this week

Sounds super epic tbh