Symphony No. 9 in C (2019-2021)

Hello!  I don't post here much anymore, but I'm an older "Old Timer" from the early days of this community.  I compose mostly in Classical style of the late 18th-early 19th Centuries.  I've been extremely busy writing all kinds of stuff, but here is one of the best examples of my recent output, my Symphony No. 9 in C.  This work was premiered by the Delano Chamber Orchestra, Wichita, Kansas, under the direction of Dr. Wesley DeSpain on February 5, 2023.  I may post a link to the live performance once I figure out how to edit it down.  In the meantime, here is a link to a YouTube scrolling score video with high quality electronic rendering. 

Details on this work:

Composed: August 29, 2019 - July 22, 2021 at Austin.

Scoring: Full Classical-period orchestra - 2 Flutes, 2 Oboes, 2 Clarinets in B-flat, 2 Bassoons, 2 Horns (in C and G), 2 Trumpets in C, Timpani, Strings.

Style: Classical, ca. 1790-1800.

Duration: 33:30.

I. Allegro maestoso (00:00)

II. Andante sostenuto (08:00)

III. Menuetto: Allegro brillante (16:25)

IV. Vivace (22:55)

- Electronic Rendering by Finale 26 music notation software "Human Playback" with NotePerformer 3 artificial intelligence assisted interpretation.

I hope you enjoy, and let me know what you think.  Incidentally, the structural repeat in the last movement is optional, and was omitted at the premiere.  

@J. Lee Graham I'd love to hear the live version. If by editing you mean splicing the movements together, that is something I can help you with you you'd like.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking of doing.  I'll get in touch.  Now I have to figure out where I put the CD!  I think it's still in my car.  

Frankly, while technically very good, the live version has less dynamic verve that the electronic version for some reason.  It may be that people were holding back, as it was a premiere of unfamiliar material.  I wish I'd been able to be at the dress rehearsal to encourage the musicians to play out more.  Still, it's a pretty good recording.  

Hello @J. Lee Graham,

I think I will review the piece movement by movement first. I will start with the first movement:

The opening definitely reminds me the opening of the Jupiter, and the phrase structure is Haydnesque like the one in b.11.

To have the half cadence of dominant reinterpreted as the V of vi of Bb major in Rehearsal no. 8 is quite amazing and again very Haydnesque

You have the ending ends on V7 of C which helps transit back ti the opening, and this is also very Haydnesque. The treatment at the beginning of development section is very classical with that move to D minor. The move to F minor for me is good but a little bit abrupt, but it's personal. This moment in 4:49 becomes more Beethovanian for me with the move to Db major and it reminds me the Scherzo of his 1st Symphony. The retransition back to recapitulation is smooth.

I see in the transition to the second subject in 5:54 you retain the half cadence of dominant and then have Eb major immediately following it to modulate to C major following the same plan as in the exposition. I think you can change the half cadence and further develop it, since in many classical repertory composers tend to visit the subdominant area before the transition to ensure smooth transition to tonic key.

I enjoy the coda very much. Hopefully the struggle will retain a little bit longer to make the triumph greater! Overall the movement is very enjoyable!

Henry

Hi @J. Lee Graham,

i will continue reviewing the other movements.

2nd Movement:

The beginning of second movement is great and I love those woodwind passages. I like the pathos in 10:03 by the violin. That second theme in 10:45 is utterly beautiful!! I don't have much to say on this movement as this is beautiful!

3rd Movement:

The German sixth chord in 17:34 is interesting. The trio is very funny and the F minor is back in 19:59!

4th Movement:

A joyful finale as usual! Again the move to Eb major in 23:34 is adorable especially it's played by clarinet! It's not quite common to have a ternary structure within the first subject in Classical tradition though. The move to Neapolitan Ab major in 25:01 is great! The gradual crescendo is great, and 25:32 (25:39 also) scares my shxt out and I'm sure it's from Surprise Symphony!!!

Nice suspension in 29:52! For me the development is a bit short as you already go to the retransition in 30:03 and the whole development only last from 29:33 to 30:28. Maybe more development can be added there! Or having a sonata-rondo instead of having a proper sonata form here will be great since it can reduce that exposition repeat in my opinion. What do you think?

Using bassoon for the second theme in the recapitulation is a good change! The ending is great ending in triumph and joy!

Overall it's a very enjoyable Classical symphony! Congrats on completing this in 2 years time and having it premiered! I agree with @chopin as I would also like to hear the live version!!

Henry

@Henry Ng Tsz Kiu: thank you for your thoughtful and detailed review of my piece, and I'm very gratified that you enjoyed it.  I'm at work, but I will respond in more detail when I'm at leisure, likely over the weekend.  Thanks again!  😃

Wow your very great talented composer!!

@hw1234: Thank you very much!  

@Henry Ng Tsz Kiu sorry for the late reply.

On 5/4/2023 at 10:17 PM, Henry Ng Tsz Kiu said:

The opening definitely reminds me the opening of the Jupiter, and the phrase structure is Haydnesque like the one in b.11.

To have the half cadence of dominant reinterpreted as the V of vi of Bb major in Rehearsal no. 8 is quite amazing and again very Haydnesque

It doesn't surprise me to read that my work is Haydnesque.  I've studied both Mozart and Haydn extensively.  

On 5/4/2023 at 10:17 PM, Henry Ng Tsz Kiu said:

I see in the transition to the second subject in 5:54 you retain the half cadence of dominant and then have Eb major immediately following it to modulate to C major following the same plan as in the exposition. I think you can change the half cadence and further develop it, since in many classical repertory composers tend to visit the subdominant area before the transition to ensure smooth transition to tonic key.

This is one moment in the movement I might wish I'd done differently.  If I ever get around to a revision, I'll consider it.  

On 5/4/2023 at 10:17 PM, Henry Ng Tsz Kiu said:

I enjoy the coda very much. Hopefully the struggle will retain a little bit longer to make the triumph greater! Overall the movement is very enjoyable!

This is the best coda of any of my symphonies, in my own estimation, so it's gratifying you enjoyed it.  

On 5/4/2023 at 10:50 PM, Henry Ng Tsz Kiu said:

2nd Movement:

The beginning of second movement is great and I love those woodwind passages. I like the pathos in 10:03 by the violin. That second theme in 10:45 is utterly beautiful!! I don't have much to say on this movement as this is beautiful!

Thank you very much!  I'm very proud of the way this movement turned out.  

On 5/4/2023 at 10:50 PM, Henry Ng Tsz Kiu said:

3rd Movement:

The German sixth chord in 17:34 is interesting. The trio is very funny and the F minor is back in 19:59!

This Menuetto is one of my best!  I'm glad you found the humour in it, also very Haydnesque.  

On 5/4/2023 at 10:50 PM, Henry Ng Tsz Kiu said:

Nice suspension in 29:52! For me the development is a bit short as you already go to the retransition in 30:03 and the whole development only last from 29:33 to 30:28. Maybe more development can be added there! Or having a sonata-rondo instead of having a proper sonata form here will be great since it can reduce that exposition repeat in my opinion. What do you think?

I think you're right!  Again, if I ever take up a revision of this piece, this is one of the things I'll probably change.  

On 5/4/2023 at 10:50 PM, Henry Ng Tsz Kiu said:

Using bassoon for the second theme in the recapitulation is a good change! The ending is great ending in triumph and joy!

I was going to leave it in the Clarinet and Oboe, but in the end I thought the change of instruments to Bassoon and Flute would provide needed variety.  Glad you liked the ending, another of my best!  

Thank you SO MUCH for your review!  

This really impressed me, it seems to all fit very comfortably almost as if perfectly/carefully notated. Incredible use of all instruments and the rapid resolves make the symphony sound almost like something that should be highly regarded or remembered as a true composer. The understanding you have of phrasing and scales together is extremely powerful and inspiring. 

You have the compositional ear of one of the greats is my opinion, very well done.

@Tom Dahlenburg  Thank you very kindly!  I've been at this a long time!  

It's absolutely dazzling.

First of all, to my ears, the magic here is to be brought into an almost perfect trompe l'oeil, where the sample technique reaches a joyful level of excellence. I measure the work done here, even if obviously certain tools (which I do not know) make it possible to push the limits of humanization...

Then, once the amazing effect has passed, I can focus on your language, your writing. Absolute mastery of style. There is everything. The form, the orchestral dialogues, the formal development, the type of adequate articulations, the architecture, the tonal plan and so on! Yes, from the assumed Mozart, from the Haydn, to the border of the Sturm & Drang that we see emerging here and there, and perhaps a hue of the young Schubert in the slow movement that I have just started just. but the classical formalism prevails. I think I would be unable to stand like you to the challenge with so much consistency from start to finish.

(I continue in real time, because I am listening to the modulated exhibition of the theme of the second movement in the woods, then the second theme in the strings, which is more Mozart)... Perhaps here a slight imperfection of the sample treatments in the repeated notes a little too similar.

Call of horn.... I'm not going to continue to describe what I hear, it's a little childish... So I let it turn in the meantime... (re-exhibited, cadence a little Mendelsohnian)...

Menuet, perfectly led!

I arrive at the final, very well done, absolutely convincing.

In summary, bravissimo! Absolute mastery of language, form, absolute culture of the time, orchestration. Very good illusion of samples (with a few small details that I could list, but which are derisory and only appear if you really want to find the thing... Especially in repeated spiccato notes for example and detached ones that are always a little similar. Maybe also a general tempo that could be slightly modified in fact! We continue, but I admit that I pinaille...)

Thank you in any case for this absolutely magnificent sharing. Congratulations on the work. My admiration!!!!

@Krisp  Thank you for such a complimentary review!  The fact that you felt I'd mastered the style is especially gratifying.  Mozart is my idol, but I confess I end up sounding more like Haydn much of the time, or at least some people tell me.  That you heard so much of Mozart here is a tribute to many years of study.  Thanks again!  

Your work can offer a lot of insight to the Young Composers of this website, just strictly due to the numerous effective articulations and dynamics you use throughout your piece. I'm trying to educate people about the importance of adding dynamics and articulations to their works, and I am currently in the process of creating a video around this. Your full work demonstrates this very well. Sure, you are using NotePerformer (I presume) for your playback, but NotePerformer still needs to work off of your dynamics.

Your first movement definitely reminded me of Mozart. At the 3:46 mark, wow, sublime writing right there, because you captured the Classical era so beautifully. And your movement between the major and minor key is very satisfying, especially when you briefly bring it into minor before concluding.

By the way, I love your second movement. Absolutely incredible because I know you are aiming for the classical style, but this movement sounded early romantic to me. Was this the intention? Also, I have to say it sounded a tiny bit Chopin-esque. Are you shocked I am saying this? I think I am too. Hmm, this could actually remind me a little of Chopin's 2nd movement of his 1st piano concerto now that I think about it. This section also is perhaps slightly Tchaikovsky-esque (The 8:37 mark), but in a Tchaikovsky turned Classical way 😆. I say this because Tchaikovsky was extremely thematic in his writing, and this movement is highly thematic as well.  Either way, this is a very solid movement that I feel goes well beyond Mozart.

@chopin Thanks very much for your generous comments!

1 hour ago, chopin said:

Your work can offer a lot of insight to the Young Composers of this website, just strictly due to the numerous effective articulations and dynamics you use throughout your piece. I'm trying to educate people about the importance of adding dynamics and articulations to their works, and I am currently in the process of creating a video around this. Your full work demonstrates this very well. Sure, you are using NotePerformer (I presume) for your playback, but NotePerformer still needs to work off of your dynamics.

I do use NotePerformer, and it helps a lot, but I still believe in articulating a bit more than my models did, not only because machines don't always "know" how to interpret the Classical style, but because it's not a given that all musicians do either - at least not to the extent that I want to dictate.  My dynamics are often very specific too, likewise.  

1 hour ago, chopin said:

Your first movement definitely reminded me of Mozart. At the 3:46 mark, wow, sublime writing right there, because you captured the Classical era so beautifully. And your movement between the major and minor key is very satisfying, especially when you briefly bring it into minor before concluding.

That sequence at 3:46, and the corresponding one later in the movement, are among the most satisfying moments in the movement to me, and I'm glad they moved you as well.  

1 hour ago, chopin said:

By the way, I love your second movement. Absolutely incredible because I know you are aiming for the classical style, but this movement sounded early romantic to me. Was this the intention? Also, I have to say it sounded a tiny bit Chopin-esque. Are you shocked I am saying this? I think I am too. Hmm, this could actually remind me a little of Chopin's 2nd movement of his 1st piano concerto now that I think about it. This section also is perhaps slightly Tchaikovsky-esque (The 8:37 mark), but in a Tchaikovsky turned Classical way 😆. I say this because Tchaikovsky was extremely thematic in his writing, and this movement is highly thematic as well.  Either way, this is a very solid movement that I feel goes well beyond Mozart.

The second movement is almost unique in my expressions.  It was indeed intended to be a bit more proto-romantic without overdoing it.  I honestly don't know where the inspiration came from.  That you hear Chopin and Tchaikowsky's influence (Mozartiana Tchaikowsky, that is) is all the more gratifying, especially in the way I handled the woodwinds at 8:37 and similar places.  Thanks again!  

By the way, I'm still looking for the CD from the premiere - I seem to have mislaid it temporarily, but it will turn up.