Re-orchestration of Sun Dappled Forest (3rd movt) for chamber orchestra (help needed!)

Hi all!

Have just re-orchestrated this piece for Chamber Orchestra, and am halfway through working on the score.

I've made quite a few changes and embellishments since the last version.

To save embarrassment, I'd be really grateful if you could let me know whether I've made any stupid errors?

Since I don't really know what I'm doing with string parts, would especially like to know if my double-stops are playable, and whether my slurs make sense? (N.B. I've only added slurs so far, no phrasing marks.)

Think some of my cello slurs may be too long, and I probably have some enharmonic spelling errors here and there. 
 

I also have to trim it down by 91 seconds somehow, as it's too long for their requirements.

Am having great trouble deciding what to cut: so any advice there would be super helpful!

Revisions to the piece will be posted lower down the thread.

Thanks for posting!

I can say that, though the double bass stops at the end of the piece are technically playable, they are a bit awkward (particularly the D-F in m. 218-219) and I wonder if they are necessary. In general, dense voicing at the bottom of a chord can lead to muddiness. A more traditional voicing which might lead to a brighter sound would favor wide intervals (octaves and then fifths) on the bottom. In any case, I would probably recommend against using double bass stops in general unless you need that particular sound. If it's just the notes you want, they can be put elsewhere (such as low brass or bassoons).

For me, the piece seemed to "find itself" at m. 116. The chordal passage which begins the piece also caught my attention, and the melodies from m. 9-45 flowed nicely. The piece became more nebulous  between m. 46 and m. 115. Perhaps this could be a place to consider cuts? If that entire middle section was removed, the piece would feel to me like and introduction & chaconne... not sure if that's an actual form, but I think it could work well!

And one miscellaneous note: I was a bit confused by the occasional strange time signature. They appeared between phrases, such as at m. 37, m. 45, and m. 149 (among others). The 6/4 at 149 seemed particularly confusing because for the following section I just ended up hearing beat 3 as beat 1, which caused m. 158 to sound a bit off when the stresses realigned with the bars.

Hope this helps! I enjoyed listening.

Thanks so much! That's all really good advice!

Will try to cut down the middle section for sure.

I've been told I have to add a clarinet part: so that's another change I need to make.

In Bars(Measures) 34-37 I intended the celli to play double-stops rather than divisi; but apparently this may be too demanding for the musicians. 
Think I need more slurs and less staccato dots in the strings in Bars 158-211. Since my score doesn't match the midi rendition in that section.

Probably need more breathing spaces for the woodwind and brass too. Perhaps I'll replace the semibreves (whole notes) with double dotted minims (half notes).

As to the time signatures, not sure how to fix these. That's just the way I heard it in my head.

Hi Alex,

I like this movement. It has vivacity in it as always present in your work. I particularly love your modulation, like in b.89-101 and the ending one modulate to C minor and Eb minor.

2 hours ago, Alex Weidmann said:

As to the time signatures, not sure how to fix these. That's just the way I heard it in my head.

I think they are perfectly fine for me!

20 hours ago, Alex Weidmann said:

Am having great trouble deciding what to cut: so any advice there would be super helpful!

For me I am completely opposite of what @pijanowski-kangas suggests! (Sorry!) I love the sections before b.115, but when it comes after it I feel there are too many repetitions without development. I agree it's quite Chachonne with similar harmonic progression even it's in 4/4 time, but I feel like the theme is also unchanging there. With an underlying harmonic structure I think at least the thematic materials have to be more varied to balance it. My interest only arouses when it comes to the C minor section in b.190.

You can also use a 6 flat key signature in b.206 to signify the Eb minor there!

I think the best way to decide what to reduce is to map out the structure first and decide the length of each part of it.

Thanks for sharing Alex!

Henry

22 hours ago, Henry Ng Tsz Kiu said:

My interest only arouses when it comes to the C minor section in b.190.

You can also use a 6 flat key signature in b.206 to signify the Eb minor there!

Thanks Henry!

You're very good at identifying keys!

I thought I was modulating to G minor in b.190, then Bb minor in b.206; but looking at it again, I can see your key suggestions are correct.

I could try to add some more melodic lines in b.115 to b.190; though I'm not sure I want to change the ostinati. 

I'm still having great trouble deciding where to make cuts!

For the clarinet part, I have them mostly doubling the 2nd violins, just in case they don't have enough violinists on the day.

On 5/10/2023 at 11:36 AM, Henry Ng Tsz Kiu said:

With an underlying harmonic structure I think at least the thematic materials have to be more varied to balance it.

Here's the edited version.

Have added several new melodic passages on top of the ostinato. Hope you approve Henry!

The new material begins shortly after 1'03".

Hi Alex,

For me your edited version makes the music less repetitive, especially in the latter half!

2 hours ago, Alex Weidmann said:

Have added several new melodic passages on top of the ostinato. Hope you approve Henry!

I do find it more attractive now with melodies on top! Although I don't remember the original version when I say this haha!

Henry