atonal prelude

This is a retroactive post: I had sketches for this particular piece dating to mid-2022, and I decided to finish the rest of it by the end of 2022/beginning of 2023. I had just jumped into the world of free avant-garde atonalism (after listening to people like Takemitsu, Nono, Penderecki, Messiaen, Vivier, etc.) from the 60s and 70s, and I was captivated by the soundscapes they managed to paint using the unrestrained sounds they utilised, and the feelings they were somehow able to evoke despite writing music that was inherently musically 'wrong' to begin with. Admittedly, compared to those giants, my little prelude for solo piano does pale in comparison somewhat.

I haven't given up on my post-tonality compositional dreams yet: I've had sketches for an Indonesian folk tale set in the style of an avant-garde late 60s atonal opera sitting around for a while now, but I haven't thought about working on those yet because it's hard to notate on software and I've only just gotten acquainted to a lot of extended techniques that one could use on various instruments.

I don't know if there'll be very many people who'll enjoy this kind of music on this forum, but I still felt like sharing it anyway because I'm reasonably proud of this work. I find that it is difficult to achieve a balance between randomness and perceived 'harmony', often more so than writing conventional music. Whether you are pleased or repulsed by my work, I hope it's at least somewhat worthwhile and eye-opening (even if you'd rather keep them closed throughout!) 😉 

This is a wonderful composition and I feel you've made the best of freedom that atonality allows. You seem to have hit what sounds right for the work and thus presumably for you too. 

I can't criticise the thematic material - obviously: there are motifs, bar 6 for example, that you use sequentially and I believe their evolution is one factor in why this work is easy to assimilate. You've also rather cleverly used silence a lot. You've allowed time for a listener to take in what's happening - the tempo. the pauses. Perhaps the slow tempo allows enough time for each event to be absorbed - with this style that seems important. 

I didn't question balance between 'randomness and perceived harmony' so perhaps my absence of comment tells you it worked for me. I did feel that balance in the use of your thematic material was dead on, though, the contrasts in register, tempo; the intrusion of sudden if brief outbursts worked well; above all between single notes and chordal moments, and dynamics.

(I'll briefly mention that I too work without keys but it never worries me if I pass through tonal centres - or within the scheme (atonality) landing on a major or minor triad because that's how things want to be at that point. Also for me there's nothing random. Ideas may start randomly but they're usually edited to fit their context in the end.)

So to sum up, a piece that's easy to assimilate and a pleasure to listen to. Refreshing. Congrats on the accomplishment.

All the best with the next one!   

Greatly appreciated, @Quinn! I never knew I could find someone who would also enjoy a composition of this nature!

I'm quite glad you enjoyed my composition. To be honest, I never thought one could find such structure and thematic material in my piece. A lot of my earlier pieces were written spontaneously; now that you've pointed them out, though, even I'm beginning to second guess what goes on when I compose 😅

Hoping my next atonal piece will be even better 💪

I hate purely atonal music resolutely simply because they never seems to embrace the basic principle of going between tension and resolution. YouTube recently recommended Ives' music but all i hear is scream scream scream (sorry if there are any fans out there).

But I think you showed me it is possible to achieve the drama between tension and resolution with atonality (somewhat). I'm still nowhere nearly fully convinced, but great job!

5 minutes ago, PCC said:

But I think you showed me it is possible to achieve the drama between tension and resolution with atonality (somewhat). I'm still nowhere nearly fully convinced, but great job!

 

I am honoured to have been able to show you this possibility, @PCC. Considering this is my first atonal composition, I'd say it was a great success!

While I do have a penchant for atonal music, I do understand that it often takes more than a developed musical palate to 'enjoy' the beauty of pieces by Penderecki and Ligeti, and so on. Back in the early days of my musical development, I couldn't stand even the mostly slightly dissonant Bartok sonatas; even now, I find it difficult to bear listening to music by people like Xenakis, Stockhausen, or and Ferneyhough. It's truly one of, if not the acquired taste of the modern music world.

I think it's personally very reasonable to utterly deplore dissonant music; in fact, hating it might be more sane than actually enjoying it (lol). That being said, it's good to expand one's horizons a bit, and it seems I've been able to deliver upon you that notion at least a little bit. Thank you!

Hi @Awsumerguy,

Certainly this is enjoyable music! In fact for me the lack of tonal structure in post tonal music makes it great to present the sudden outbursts in your piece here. I agree with everything @Quinn said. Your control of time is great here with the sudden outbursts and suitable rests, like a recitative. For me this is a short prelude, so I don't mind having less clear thematic structure and coherence here.

23 hours ago, Awsumerguy said:

I find that it is difficult to achieve a balance between randomness and perceived 'harmony', often more so than writing conventional music.

For me I think so too, that's why I never try writing one. In tonal music you can just follow the standard harmonic progression to develop your music, but in a post tonal one you will have to find one of your own, which makes your piece original but at the same time difficult to compose sometimes.

15 hours ago, Awsumerguy said:

I think it's personally very reasonable to utterly deplore dissonant music; in fact, hating it might be more sane than actually enjoying it (lol)

I won't say I deplore it, but that's not my thing to do and I am incapable of composing one in that style!

I would like to ask, what do you mean by "with extreme ardour" in b.6 when it's p there? Also why will it be "waltz like" there? Also I feel like some of the accidentals there is unnecessarily difficult, like the C double flat can be Bb in b.12 LH, B double sharp can be C# in b.21 LH, G double flat can be F natural in b.27 RH. You can also add a metronome marking at the beginning and othere places in order to make the tempo clear especially for a modern piece.

23 hours ago, Awsumerguy said:

I don't know if there'll be very many people who'll enjoy this kind of music on this forum

Of course not! In fact the difference of styles of the posts here is what makes YC a great place. People can immerse in different styles and learn from them. For me I don't find it difficult at all.

17 hours ago, Awsumerguy said:

Greatly appreciated, @Quinn! I never knew I could find someone who would also enjoy a composition of this nature!

You can count on him since he has written great post-tonal pieces including this one: 

Thanks for sharing!

Henry

To my ears, it's very cool.

I love how receptive this community is when it comes to avant garde music; this is really new to me, but I'm all for it! I've also been really buoyed by this optimism, and have just come around again to say thank you to everyone who's listened to my piece! 

5 hours ago, Henry Ng Tsz Kiu said:

Thanks for sharing!

Henry

Thank you for enjoying my music, Henry! I'm sorry I can't give as elaborate a response as I normally would; I'm getting sleepy (after playing games all evening 👍). Despite this, I hope you'll look forward to me posting more atonal stuff on here (even if that'd take a while!)

On 5/31/2023 at 8:43 AM, Henry Ng Tsz Kiu said:

You can count on him since he has written great post-tonal pieces including this one

Henry, that was most kind of you to mention my humble effort.

But to me now music is just music. I remember my training (such as it was) in traditional forms, serial stuff and CPP and learned strict counterpoint but now it's about sound organisation and self-expression - those standard forms too often limit expression so I have to be 'free'. I look on the orchestra/its timbres as a palette of (pleasant enough) sounds. Each instrument has equal rights although in traditional orchestral works it may have a more strict role like the viola and double bass.

So atonal music is just organised sound - so is a Mozart Symphony.  Emotions, those tensions/resolutions, spoken of so often, can occur for reasons other than CPP platitudes (like Beethoven did when resolving a long diminished phase onto a major triad. 

The issue (for me) is how to communicate - like, a listener gets something of a mood/atmosphere, mental picture, personality from the result. Is the listener given enough time to take in what's going on (since it's unlikely to pander to 'standard'  listener expectations). That rules out "disorganised" atonality, music notes scattered willy-nilly on music paper with too little skill on behalf of the composer, no deliberate placement or aesthetic.

Non-tonal music corresponds to some people like their poetry to be in formal metre and rhyming nicely while others flex their emotional imagination dealing with the more surreal work of Mallarme or Patchen - or Messiaen - (his own words to his lovely work, Harawi).

But this isn't a discussion on definitions. Sorry. I still find Ausumerguy' work pleasing to listen too.   

1 hour ago, Quinn said:

The issue (for me) is how to communicate - like, a listener gets something of a mood/atmosphere, mental picture, personality from the result. Is the listener given enough time to take in what's going on (since it's unlikely to pander to 'standard'  listener expectations). That rules out "disorganised" atonality, music notes scattered willy-nilly on music paper with too little skill on behalf of the composer, no deliberate placement or aesthetic.

But this isn't a discussion on definitions. Sorry. I still find Ausumerguy' work pleasing to listen too.   

😅

I fully agree with this stance against some composers who write angry dissonances for the sake of sounding dissonant (the New Complexity composers, for instance), but I'll admit that I'm not fully on board with the idea that a piece has to be fully deliberate throughout in order to paint an interesting soundscape/ musical expression. 'Escapades in a Lucid Land', for one, was not written like that: I sat down on a piano and wrote down only what felt dissonant to me, but eventually I managed to rework it into sounding like something 'aesthetically' coherent. Technically you can say this piece that I wrote didn't have a deliberate placement to begin with, though I guess you might be talking more about people like Ferneyhough and Finnissy (who write music so confusing that even I struggle to enjoy it). 

I just finished reading a book about Lucid Dreaming and your title made me think of it.  Although the piece made me think of more of a kind of nightmare though - but lucid dreaming can help defuse nightmares sometimes.  But the music itself is quite interesting to say the least and expertly engraved!  There is lots of character to the musical gestures.  Surprisingly, the piece has a key signature of F major which I agree is the tonal center in the beginning, although it doesn't end in that key.  I think, to me at least it doesn't sound finished although maybe this style of writing doesn't lend itself well to leaving an impression of finality.  But, all things considered I would have liked to stay in this Lucid Land a bit longer!  Thanks for sharing!