Piano Sonata in C minor, 3rd movement

Here comes the 3rd movement. I needed to post this so I can move on with my life lol.
 

Links to previous movements. Hope you would enjoy and comment.

Btw I should hold my promise, see if I can tag you @Awsumerguy

On 6/9/2023 at 11:04 AM, Awsumerguy said:

I suppose I can see where you're coming from there, so I'd like to reword what I said earlier. I'd say counterpoint isn't fun mainly because of how daunting it seems to write with it and how much structure one has to stick to in order to make a piece follow 'the rules' of counterpoint, especially when it comes to fugues and all that. I mean, even Berlioz hated his time studying it while he was at the Paris Conservatoire (I think, anyway)!

Hey @PCC,

That's a fascinating movement and playing for me! The movement looks monstrously hard for me, and even there are slips in your recording it doesn't mean anything for me. What's important is that you successfully realize your music to the world and share it to others! Congrats on that!

The Scherzo I is indeed fiery. The fugal like counterpoint here is really funny and vary the texture here. I really love b.53, when you defy that Gb minor chord with one simple dominant chord. Amazing there. Maybe only b.23-24 I feel slightly off with the parallel fourths even though it comes from previous movements. Possibly adding a top voice with thirds btw the middle voice and sixth btw the lower voice to form a faxbourden will be great!

For the trio I, is the theme come from a famous Christmas Song??!! I remember the tune is A-G-F#-E-D-E-F#-D and even the rhythm but I forget the name at the moment lol. But it combines with that fierce octaves with good effect. It's interesting that you use the tune with different harmonic progression there, and it's very creative to use this technique of re-harmonization. 

The beginning of the Trio II immediately reminds me the middle section of the third Scherzo of Chopin. I don't know the theme since I seldom play game lol. 

It's creative to include inversion in your double, but beware of the parallels like in b.266-267, And the ending is very brilliant! I like this!

Thanks for sharing your work as well as your marvelous recording here. I really appreciate that!

Henry

2 hours ago, Henry Ng Tsz Kiu said:

but beware of the parallels like in b.266-267

Ah shoot I thought I sealed every hole 😪

but yeah too late now lol. told you guys it was brute force counterpoint 😜

Anyway the video game theme is modified, say no to stupid copyrights

I guess you are thinking of “deck the halls”? But actually it’s from a school I attended when I was young. And reharmonisation is good because I can copy and paste half the material 😂

thanks for review and adding some publicity 

4 hours ago, PCC said:

I guess you are thinking of “deck the halls”? But actually it’s from a school I attended when I was young. And reharmonisation is good because I can copy and paste half the material 😂

Yup that's the song! I think as long as there's originality in it, in this case reharmonization, there's no copyright issue🤣

4 hours ago, PCC said:

Ah shoot I thought I sealed every hole 😪

but yeah too late now lol. told you guys it was brute force counterpoint 😜

It's hard....

4 hours ago, PCC said:

thanks for review and adding some publicity 

Definitely!

Henry

On 6/22/2023 at 4:58 AM, PCC said:

I needed to post this so I can move on with my life lol.

That might be the most relatable thing I've seen on the site 🤣

I've listened to the whole sonata a few times now, and it's driving me crazy that I really just can't think of much to actually *say*. Maybe it'll come to me if I just start typing thoughts.

First, you get gold stars for actually playing your piece -- in fact, the entire sonata. That's a lot of work! Composing is difficult enough, but performance is a related but decidedly distinct skill set. Bravo!

I found this composition really challenging to understand, and it's finally dawned on me as to why that is. It's because there are elements of things in it (particularly in the first movement) that were written very much with your personal life being the key driving force, but it's paired along with writing that's detached from that mindset. There's probably a specific reason for the existence of mss. 17 - 18 in the 1st movement, (and it's later developments and iterations) because it has a somewhat naive quality that stands in stark contrast to the moodiness that surrounds it (almost like a loss of innocence, starting in ms. 23?). It's a jarring juxtaposition that's thrown me for a loop for a while, but now that I understand there's something of a personal meaningfulness to it for you, and there are sections that are derived from it without being connected to those personal things, I'm finally starting to wrap my head around it.

I think for me, the highlight of the 1st movement is the daring but tasteful chords at places like mss. 66 - 67. For something practical, I'd say that at mss. 108-115, that second note in the L.H., the low F, just go ahead and move all of them, or at least most of them, an octave up, and the passage will likely look, feel, and sound more organic. That low F is rooting all the bass harmonies, and it sounds kind of "static" as a result, I think more than you intended.

The second movement: I love the language here. It actually weirdly reminds me of Chopin's Op. 10 No. 6 Etude, or at least, it has a similar vibe to me. I really like it: the chromatic harshness and the gregorian chant part contrast well!

The 3rd movement is really cool. My favorite part is the smoothness of the passages at mss. 107 - 100 and mss. 126 - 135. 
 

Thanks for sharing! I really enjoyed listening to all of this 🙂

Thanks for the shoutout, @PCC! Sorry I haven't been on the forum recently: I've decided to take a break with writing music and focus on some other things. I should be back into it by next month before I start school again.

I've just given the piece a quick listen, and I think you've well-established your point: counterpoint can be fun! This piece was so fun to listen to. The scherzo (particularly the first few measures) reminds me a lot of the beginning to Beethoven 9's 2nd movement, while the start of the 2nd Trio reminds me of late-Romanticism in Rachmaninoff (dunno if that's what you were going for tho). I lot of cool fiddly bits around the 1st Trio, too! 

As if just by listening to it, I've been moved to start composing again. Thanks for the piece!

On 6/23/2023 at 3:07 PM, Henry Ng Tsz Kiu said:

really love b.53, when you defy that Gb minor chord with one simple dominant chord

It's funny, I would not have figured this out if I don't try it out on the piano.

On 6/23/2023 at 3:07 PM, Henry Ng Tsz Kiu said:

The movement looks monstrously hard for me

The hardest parts of this movement for are probably bars 43-50 when both hands need to handle multiple voices, and 240-261 the part where I have to redirect the trio II back to the double. In fact there had been a couple of points I deliberately made things a bit easier for myself compared to the initial ideas, like bars 254-261, originally the left hand part has an extra G note on the beat, but that quickly makes the left hand go fatigue so I figured removing a note would solve the problem. However it certainly becomes a bit less intuitive. Or 198-225, originally I wanted every chord to be a 4-to-5 note chord, but that made pedaling a tad too difficult for me. I made the octave glissando the showcase for the second movement though so I won't be back down on that anytime soon lol.

23 hours ago, SergeOfArniVillage said:

mss. 108-115, that second note in the L.H., the low F, just go ahead and move all of them, or at least most of them, an octave up

Interesting you pointed that out, again with the simplification of difficulty happening here, originally the Fs are alternating between the high note and low note all the way through (like 112-115, low F - note - high F - note - repeat all the way through), but it is too difficult for me to play that way, so I compromised for bars 108-111.

23 hours ago, SergeOfArniVillage said:

specific reason for the existence

basically these are the themes that would remind me of my school years. But I agree, even I myself don't understand much about the full concept of the first movement, it's bizarre in that way

39 minutes ago, Awsumerguy said:

I should be back into it by next month before I start school again

school is important though

On 6/23/2023 at 3:07 PM, Henry Ng Tsz Kiu said:

The beginning of the Trio II immediately reminds me the middle section of the third Scherzo of Chopin

40 minutes ago, Awsumerguy said:

2nd Trio reminds me of late-Romanticism in Rachmaninoff (dunno if that's what you were going for tho)

more like I took elements from the chopin scherzi a bit too much haha

Some solutions/changes

On 6/23/2023 at 3:07 PM, Henry Ng Tsz Kiu said:

but beware of the parallels like in b.266-267

And then a slight modification to the ending to unify the movement