Piano Sonata no.1 in A major, Pastoral, Second Movement

Hi! I post this since I'm bored and I have withheld this recording for too long a time...

This is the Scherzo second movement of the A major sonata (2014-2015). The first movement is posted here in Jan 2023:

Piano Sonata no.1 2nd Mov.pdf

It's in F major but the influence of the original tonic and C# minor is predominant in the movement, and the use of motive is saturated here. The structure of the movement is quite simple:

0:04 Scherzo (Forgive my breathing lol). Ends on A major with direct quotation of the opening motive in the first movement. Wanders through C sharp minor. I like that secret quotation in the LH bass-line in 1:07

2:53 Trio. A fugato using the inversion of the opening motive as in the first movement. I will say this part is too pretentious to strive for difference for the 5/4 time signature and the inversion in C# minor. Quote the opening motive directly in 3:59. (Forgive my breathing again...)

4:03 Scherzo reprise without all those repetition.

5:27 Coda, using the elements from the trio, leads straight through to the Db major third movement which I don't know whether I will play it or not since it's not too good.

I quite like the vivacity of this movement. But for me the treatment in the middle section and forcing it to C# minor, though a cohesion device to link the movements, is too artificial for me now. Let me know what you think! Hope you enjoy the movement!

The recording is played by myself and I know it's not perfect, but I have tried and this is fairly good for me.

Here's the youtube link:

P.S I don't think I will practice and record the third and fourth movements of the Sonata since they are not so good. Even if I have time I will reserve it to practice the final movement of my 2nd Sonata and the first movement of my 3rd Sonata.

Henry

Hi Henry,

This is a well-written and enjoyable Schubertian scherzo! It is a lively piece, and the rhythm does not feel like 3/4 to me but 6/8. And 176 dotted half-notes a minute seems too fast for me - that's 528 quarter notes per minute! Yet, you manage to retain clarity in your recording, and it is a fantastic performance. Great job!

The modulation to C-sharp minor towards the trio section sounds smooth to me. Although the time signature for the trio section is not traditional, the flow of the music does not feel jagged at all. I have not ventured into irregular time signatures, and your attempt to use it in your scherzo is a remarkable breakthrough. Excellent counterpoint writing as well.

I have just listened to the first movement of your sonata, and I must say this is an impressive creation! Keep up the good work, and thank you for sharing this piece!

Carl Koh Wei Hao

Outsdanding performance! You are a virtuoso! You have created a composition that not only challenges the boundaries of technical ability but also captures the hearts of all who listen. The precision and dexterity with which you play are absolutely breathtaking. Your composition embodies a vibrant energy that electrifies the atmosphere. The lightning-fast runs and intricate passages showcase your technical mastery, while the dynamic nuances and expressive phrasing add a layer of depth and emotion to the performance. It's an absolute thrill to listen to!

and you say my scherzo was hard

I think the scherzo proper is well thought out, and I like how something that is supposed to be F major begins and ends in A major. It can really take on the first movement, which (the first movement) was a very organic and flowing piece that you can't feel and breaks between themes, and here the scherzo provides those breaks.

And no, breathing is pretty much part of a performance imo. Chamber music (and orchestral music to some extent but is less noticeable I suppose) depends on it.

What makes you feel the "artificial"ness of the trio? I think like Carl said, harmonically going into C# minor is great. It's probably a thematic consideration?

Or was it some motif overloading issue? I tried putting my hands on the keyboard for this one and felt the 1st movement motif is already quite abundant in the scherzo proper, perhaps the trio can use a different atmosphere? idk.

Is there anything you would prefer to change up?

Hello @Carl Koh Wei Hao,

Thanks for your supportive words!

On 7/7/2023 at 6:52 PM, Carl Koh Wei Hao said:

And 176 dotted half-notes a minute seems too fast for me - that's 528 quarter notes per minute! Yet, you manage to retain clarity in your recording, and it is a fantastic performance. Great job!

Thx! I also find the tempo fast and hard to play with clarity, thus I for sure practice for some time! It's hard to play and bring out the voicing and the details but I'm happy with the result.

On 7/7/2023 at 6:52 PM, Carl Koh Wei Hao said:

The modulation to C-sharp minor towards the trio section sounds smooth to me. Although the time signature for the trio section is not traditional, the flow of the music does not feel jagged at all. I have not ventured into irregular time signatures, and your attempt to use it in your scherzo is a remarkable breakthrough. Excellent counterpoint writing as well.

I do want to try irregular time signature at that time, though here I used it because I wanted to instead of the music needs it. The C sharp minor is important throughout the piece with almost every climax in that key in all the movements, but now I feel like I don't have to use key for cohesion. It's definitely a good try though.

On 7/7/2023 at 6:52 PM, Carl Koh Wei Hao said:

I have just listened to the first movement of your sonata, and I must say this is an impressive creation! Keep up the good work, and thank you for sharing this piece!

Thank you! You can also leave your comments there haha!

Thank you Carl!

Henry

Hello @Nikolaos Dimopoulos,

Thx for your review and compliment! Your wording is so great!

23 hours ago, Nikolaos Dimopoulos said:

Outsdanding performance! You are a virtuoso! You have created a composition that not only challenges the boundaries of technical ability but also captures the hearts of all who listen. The precision and dexterity with which you play are absolutely breathtaking. Your composition embodies a vibrant energy that electrifies the atmosphere. The lightning-fast runs and intricate passages showcase your technical mastery, while the dynamic nuances and expressive phrasing add a layer of depth and emotion to the performance. It's an absolute thrill to listen to!

I do practice for quite time and try many times to have this recording! I like the energy in the movement!

Henry

Hey @PCC,

Thx for your listening of the two movements and review!

11 hours ago, PCC said:

I think the scherzo proper is well thought out, and I like how something that is supposed to be F major begins and ends in A major. It can really take on the first movement, which (the first movement) was a very organic and flowing piece that you can't feel and breaks between themes, and here the scherzo provides those breaks.

Yup I think the first movement is saturated with thick texture and motives, so here the texture is lighter for a contrast. I think even though the new movement has a new key, I want to have the A major dominating the movement like the F major Scherzo of Beethoven's 7th Symphony.

12 hours ago, PCC said:

And no, breathing is pretty much part of a performance imo. Chamber music (and orchestral music to some extent but is less noticeable I suppose) depends on it.

Haha 😤

12 hours ago, PCC said:

What makes you feel the "artificial"ness of the trio? I think like Carl said, harmonically going into C# minor is great. It's probably a thematic consideration?

Yup, but I feel like the 5/4 time snd C sharp minor are only my need, not the music's need. It's just a bias from the composer, especially when the work was composed near 10 years ago and before I composed greater works. But still to finish the first multi-movement work is good enough even though I'm not satisfied with the 3rd and 4th movement of the work, especially the 4th mov.

12 hours ago, PCC said:

Or was it some motif overloading issue? I tried putting my hands on the keyboard for this one and felt the 1st movement motif is already quite abundant in the scherzo proper, perhaps the trio can use a different atmosphere? idk.

Yup I was chasing for cohesion in quite an overloaded way. Maybe I will compose this in a less apparent way now.

12 hours ago, PCC said:

Is there anything you would prefer to change up?

Actually I have already modified some details during my practicing of it, particularly the trio since the counterpoint is awful in the 1st draft. But I don't change the overall structure since I should have the original music retained as much as possible to have it remained authentic to my older self.

12 hours ago, PCC said:

and you say my scherzo was hard

Yours is indeed hard...

Henry

Wow, what an impressive performance!

I felt like I was listening to a symphony, this was "orchestrated" really well. This piece has a lot of playful character to it, so nice job nailing the scherzo style. My favorite parts would probably be the LH octave section at around b.150, and the spots where you have back and forth between the hands like b.52. 

This piece seems difficult to capture the intent of the notes, like the articulations and what not. But you played masterfully as always. 

I'm less of a fan for the trio section, but I can't really pinpoint what it is. Maybe because it's a bit muddier in the LH, or maybe it's the 5/8 feel. I dunno. It's good, but I favored the A section a lot more. Subjective and all that though

I'm curious about the absurdly fast tempo. I know we've discussed this before, but I always try to put the beat in the measures. Like, it just doesn't seem 3/4 to me. Of course, it's your music, and I wouldn't say it's wrong, but I'm just curious why you prefer the way you wrote it over using 6/8? Is it more legible to you?

You never cease to impress, Henry, and this is just another example of how great a musician you are (and to think you wrote this 7 or so years ago?!). I hope more share some thoughts on this piece, as it's clearly underrepresented so far. I am a little sad you don't feel like the other movements are worth the time to practice and perform; I'd love to hear this as a whole. But, you working on more recent pieces of yours is a good enough excuse lol.

Great work, and thanks for sharing as always 🙂

Since I'm a little late, enough has already been said about the work.
But I reiterate that it is a pleasure to hear it played.

What I emphasize is something that I always notice and I find important and that is the coherence and the discourse. That is to say, that the work as a whole sounds orderly and with the appropriate transitions.
And in this case it seems to me to be a model. 

The initial (and final) part seems to me very dynamic and well constructed as "looking forward". I like that it has room for all kinds of textures. There are thick textures but others are simple imitative lines or in counterpoint. It's funny how when you use those simple lines you don't lose any strength.

I think the transition to the trio is great and it is a very appropriate contrast, different but not out of that coherence.

A pleasure to listen to it.
 

Please at least post the other movements! 🙏

Hey @Guardian25,

13 hours ago, Guardian25 said:

Please at least post the other movements! 🙏

I'm now more inclined to at least playing and posting the 3rd movement! Thx for your reply!

Henry

Hey Luis,

17 hours ago, Luis Hernández said:

Since I'm a little late, enough has already been said about the work.
But I reiterate that it is a pleasure to hear it played.

Thank you! The movement is quite hard and it does take me some time to play fluently and clearly! 

17 hours ago, Luis Hernández said:

What I emphasize is something that I always notice and I find important and that is the coherence and the discourse. That is to say, that the work as a whole sounds orderly and with the appropriate transitions.
And in this case it seems to me to be a model. 

Yup for me cohesion is the most important thing in music, and transition is one of the hardest part to compose since it has to provide smooth and reasonable transitions between different parts. This whole sonata I paid additional attention to it since I wanted to write something organic and tight, (which differs from my Sonata no.2 which is less motivically tightened), and I'm using the same motive in all four movements and its inversion for those second themes. This one is my first multi movement work and I was still learning how to write one then, so it appears more stringent.

17 hours ago, Luis Hernández said:

The initial (and final) part seems to me very dynamic and well constructed as "looking forward". I like that it has room for all kinds of textures. There are thick textures but others are simple imitative lines or in counterpoint. It's funny how when you use those simple lines you don't lose any strength.

Maybe there's some vivacity here making the line move forward? Idk how I did that tbh.

17 hours ago, Luis Hernández said:

I think the transition to the trio is great and it is a very appropriate contrast, different but not out of that coherence.

The texture there is thicker with emphasis on lower register and does provide contrast with the lighter texture.

Thx for your review Luis! Your reviews are always well thought!

Henry

Yo Vince,

On 7/19/2023 at 1:18 PM, Thatguy v2.0 said:

I felt like I was listening to a symphony, this was "orchestrated" really well. This piece has a lot of playful character to it, so nice job nailing the scherzo style. My favorite parts would probably be the LH octave section at around b.150, and the spots where you have back and forth between the hands like b.52. 

I love the use of different register and texture here which results in this "orchestration here", as in the previous ( ) piece too! I love b.150 too since that LH is actually the restatement of the A major theme of the 1st mov., but in a much different context.

On 7/19/2023 at 1:18 PM, Thatguy v2.0 said:

This piece seems difficult to capture the intent of the notes, like the articulations and what not. But you played masterfully as always. 

It really is difficult! But who will play it except myself LoL!

For the articulations, I am the composer and I am sure I know what all of them mean. Many of them are added after my playing of it. 

On 7/19/2023 at 1:18 PM, Thatguy v2.0 said:

I'm less of a fan for the trio section, but I can't really pinpoint what it is. Maybe because it's a bit muddier in the LH, or maybe it's the 5/8 feel. I dunno. It's good, but I favored the A section a lot more. Subjective and all that though

Yup I think the part somewhat artificial too with the intentional 5/8 time. Maybe you don't like the counterpoint in it too haha!

On 7/19/2023 at 1:18 PM, Thatguy v2.0 said:

I'm curious about the absurdly fast tempo. I know we've discussed this before, but I always try to put the beat in the measures. Like, it just doesn't seem 3/4 to me. Of course, it's your music, and I wouldn't say it's wrong, but I'm just curious why you prefer the way you wrote it over using 6/8? Is it more legible to you?

Yup you said that in the ( ) post too. I will use 6/8 now if there will be a final update of the score, and take the first measure as the upbeat. I used 3/4 then since I believed a Scherzo must use a 3/4 time LoL.

On 7/19/2023 at 1:18 PM, Thatguy v2.0 said:

You never cease to impress, Henry, and this is just another example of how great a musician you are (and to think you wrote this 7 or so years ago?!). I hope more share some thoughts on this piece, as it's clearly underrepresented so far. I am a little sad you don't feel like the other movements are worth the time to practice and perform; I'd love to hear this as a whole. But, you working on more recent pieces of yours is a good enough excuse lol.

Maybe I will practice the 3rd mov now after several people including you want to have a look of it!

Thx Vince! I always loon forward to your review.

Henry

@Henry Ng Tsz Kiu

You know what? This is quite important:

Yup for me cohesion is the most important thing in music, and transition is one of the hardest part to compose since it has to provide smooth and reasonable transitions between different parts. 

A very common mistake, and one that most of us have made, is that we want to write a big, important work..., and what we do is to put one section after another without any relation.

In reality, almost all harmonic languages can be combined, but they need TRANSITIONS. It cannot be that after a section that sounds like a nineteenth-century waltz, comes something minimalist.

It is an exaggeration, but I think it is understood.

It takes a long time to learn that it is very important to invest effort in designing a work, as much as writing it.

And well, I'm working on it...
That's why I often prefer to keep the pieces short and not extend them without sense.