What chord is this?

This is a reduction of a real progression, from a classical work. Also, known by I would say 99.9% of the people.
The key is G maj and the progression is Gmaj- ? - Gmaj- ?..

This chord ? is composed of the notes Eb - Bb - C - F - D.

How would you interpret this chord, what function does it have?

Later on I will reveal which piece it is, (does anyone know).

27 minutes ago, Luis Hernández said:

This is a reduction of a real progression, from a classical work. Also, known by I would say 99.9% of the people.
The key is G maj and the progression is Gmaj- ? - Gmaj- ?..

This chord ? is composed of the notes Eb - Bb - C - F - D.

How would you interpret this chord, what function does it have?

Later on I will reveal which piece it is, (does anyone know).

 

Im reading this as a Dominant 7th with a b9 and b13. So D7 (b9,b13). And it’s functioning as a Dominant chord. Especially in this example, moving from G-D7 and back to G. 

59 minutes ago, Luis Hernández said:

Later on I will reveal which piece it is, (does anyone know).

At least the Augurs of Spring in the Rite has something similar with the chord, a V7/Ab over the top of a Fb,Cb bass: 

2 hours ago, Henry Ng Tsz Kiu said:

At least the Augurs of Spring in the Rite has something similar with the chord, a V7/Ab over the top of a Fb,Cb bass: 

 

It is very interesting but a different situation.
What Stravinsky uses, as I see it, is an octatonic scale and a polychord that is Eb7 + Fb, which is seen as a whole in the 8 horns he introduced (not seen in your image). But really that doesn't resolve into an Ab chord. It resolves into four bars of melodic lines that, if anything, draw a polychord E + C, and yet some more note on the English horn.
Anyway, this seems to be a polychordal situation and not functional in the classical sense.

3 hours ago, Guardian25 said:

Im reading this as a Dominant 7th with a b9 and b13. So D7 (b9,b13). And it’s functioning as a Dominant chord. Especially in this example, moving from G-D7 and back to G. 

 

Indeed, I see it that way. That is, it is functional harmony (it is perfectly audible in context).
What is striking is that under the D7, an Eb is drawn (without a third).
In fact in the D7 the fifth (A) does not appear so as not to clash with the Bb, in a sort of D7+.

And it calls my attention because the most similar thing (well it is that technique) that I know to this is the reharmonization of the dominant chord altering its fundamental. The condition for this to happen is that the tritone is present, and it is.
I think it is a technique after the time of Puccini (who is the author of this) more of jazz. But it doesn't surprise me at all, of course.

And well to unveil the enigma it is the aria NESSUN DORMA from Turandot. Who doesn't know it?
From the moment the voice starts, this progression is recognized several times and then goes to D- Bm.....

35 minutes ago, Luis Hernández said:

Indeed, I see it that way. That is, it is functional harmony (it is perfectly audible in context).
What is striking is that under the D7, an Eb is drawn (without a third).
In fact in the D7 the fifth (A) does not appear so as not to clash with the Bb, in a sort of D7+.

And it calls my attention because the most similar thing (well it is that technique) that I know to this is the reharmonization of the dominant chord altering its fundamental. The condition for this to happen is that the tritone is present, and it is.
I think it is a technique after the time of Puccini (who is the author of this) more of jazz. But it doesn't surprise me at all, of course.

And well to unveil the enigma it is the aria NESSUN DORMA from Turandot. Who doesn't know it?
From the moment the voice starts, this progression is recognized several times and then goes to D- Bm.....

 

 

 

Nice! The only reason I recognized it as a type of Dominant chord is because I have some background in jazz. I find it Interesting that this type of chord was used a bit before the Jazz musical language. I wonder if Puccini viewed this type of chord in a different manner, for example as a type of Polychord

Puccini was a very interesting composer (apart from being very inspired and with an absolute command of the orchestra).
Would he know some of the techniques of the 20th century? He died in 1924, leaving Turandot unfinished.
He did have influences of Wagner and Debussy, although he recycled them in his own way.

From a classical harmony point of view (although in the late 19th century this could be seen as a hybrid chord perhaps: D7+/Eb.
But in this case it would be an Eb chord, without dominant function, which it does have.

Anyway, I'm not surprised that jazz developed all this by making it its own.

 

I think it is a V7 chord with the D# added (which I found really strange) or maybe is a V7 chord over a neapolitan. 

Another explanation could be:

- Bartok axis system (That Eb would be a sustitution for A)

- An added 5th interval over the 5th of the chord, as Stravinsky and Falla does.

11 minutes ago, Samuel_vangogh said:

I think it is a V7 chord with the D# added (which I found really strange) or maybe is a V7 chord over a neapolitan. 

Another explanation could be:

- Bartok axis system (That Eb would be a sustitution for A)

- An added 5th interval over the 5th of the chord, as Stravinsky and Falla does.

 

I think you have to take into account the context, which is totally tonal and functional.

And also that the solution, if there is only one, is the simplest.

For me it is an altered V7 chord (but altering the fundamental).

The other explanations are possible, but some of them have no continuity. For example, Bartok's axial system.

7 minutes ago, Luis Hernández said:

And also that the solution, if there is only one, is the simplest.

I should have considered the Occam's razor principe, I started digressing with paranoic solutions hahaha;

I see your point, it's a dominant chord, but having the root altered one halfstep up it's quite weird, the one which usually is altered is the 5th, not the root.

5 minutes ago, Samuel_vangogh said:

I should have considered the Occam's razor principe, I started digressing with paranoic solutions hahaha;

I see your point, it's a dominant chord, but having the root altered one halfstep up it's quite weird, the one which usually is altered is the 5th, not the root.

 

Decades later there is a theoretical explanation that, as noted above, comes out of jazz.

It is the substitution of structures in the dominant chord.

As long as you keep the tritone over the following chord, you can do whatever you want with the rest. Even changing the bass note.

Starting from this:

You can do this, or whatever:

On 8/1/2023 at 9:13 PM, Luis Hernández said:

Decades later there is a theoretical explanation that, as noted above, comes out of jazz.

It is the substitution of structures in the dominant chord.

As long as you keep the tritone over the following chord, you can do whatever you want with the rest. Even changing the bass note.

Starting from this:

You can do this, or whatever:

 

Oh, thank you, I didn't know that.

I'm not a jazz connoisseur 🥲🥲, it looks quite interesting, i want to try it on a piece!