Copying scores note by note as a way to learn composition.

Hey hope you all are doing well.

I am curious as what you think about the method of copying scores out note by note either by hand or in the notation software as a way to learn composition.

Someone mention for example that wagner copied all of Beethoven's symphonies out by hand in order to learn from the score.

Is it a good method?

What do you think?

Thank you.

Just now, Bjarke said:

Hey hope you all are doing well.

I am curious as what you think about the method of copying scores out note by note either by hand or in the notation software as a way to learn composition.

Someone mention for example that wagner copied all of Beethoven's symphonies out by hand in order to learn from the score.

Is it a good method?

What do you think?

Thank you.

It will be a waste of time. All you will do is copy out a score.

Score study, on the other hand can be a better way and you definitely don't need to copy it to do that. Just look at it and follow along and examine all of what's going on.

But here's why even that is still not the best way: You have to actually know (at least via music theory) what you're even looking at to begin with.

So score study is best if you are looking to imitate a particular style of writing, so you can learn the tropes and techniques, but isn't good for learning "composition". An example was that, back in my rocker days, if I wanted to write something in the "power metal" genre, I would listen to bands like Helloween and Hammerfall and pick out the patterns in structure, harmony, scales used, melodic contours, progressions, etc. But I already knew how to identify those things ahead of time.

Really, the only way to actually learn composition is to study composition and the music theory behind it. Writing and structuring a melody, harmony, counterpoint and all that jazz is step 1.

From there, you become a sort of filter that processes what you learn from listening to others work and applying those concepts to your own ideas.

1 hour ago, AngelCityOutlaw said:

Score study, on the other hand can be a better way and you definitely don't need to copy it to do that. Just look at it and follow along and examine all of what's going on.

But here's why even that is still not the best way: You have to actually know (at least via music theory) what you're even looking at to begin with.

Yes. Score study helps enormously in developing the inner ear too. Along with some knowledge of theory, particularly intervals and chordal progressions, it can get you to where you want to be a lot quicker. It CAN unfortunately lead to studying a style but it can also give a good grounding in orchestral detailing: example: doubling, dovetailing, orchestral balance and perhaps instruments in more extreme registers and unusual articulations. For more traditional orchestration, being able to create the sound of a score in one's mind from the printed page takes a bit of practice. But it can be acquired. 

For me that's been most helpful with composing in that I now tend to think orchestrally...which isn't to say I'm anywhere near always right but as I write in short score I notate what instruments I want as I go.  

I agree with you about copying out a score is a waste of time. It doesn't develop aural skills but might be useful to learn the conventions used in orchestral scores.

Copying out the Rite of Spring might be interesting - or Havergal Brian's Gothic Symphony, if you can get 50-stave music paper! 

One thing I find useful, and have done a few times, is to do piano reductions of orchestral scores.
That way you learn a lot because you have to analyze the score in detail, but also in general.
The thing is that it requires a minimum of piano writing skills.

For me I think it depends. Some people rely on using their muscle to learn, and copying score does help. Others may use sight, hearing, theory to help. So there's unique method for everyone. For me maybe I use my ears more and remember the sounds in my mind for the timbre.

Henry