Is this too long for a Nocturne?

This is my Nocturne In D, my first published Nocturne. It is almost ( perhaps ridiculously ) 9 mins long. Bearing in mind most of the Nocturnes I hv came across, I intended it to be shorter - not having bars 12-32, overall faster tempo, having a shorter ending - but feel it is still more apt and complete the way it is. 
Beyond length, what do y'all think and feel abt this piece anyways?

https://musescore.com/user/62605720/scores/12300406
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6QAHZ_JGVE

Hi @Aw Ke Shen,

I don't think it will be too long for a nocturne! I do think the tempo can be faster!

I like the decent effort you have paid! I like the overall sad mood. Definitely see the influence from Chopin's famous C sharp minor nocturne.

Start from b.56 the tempo marking can be weird for human players, but of course that's necessary for a computer "player" haha!

I think you can definitely put more contrast, particularly in the middle section. In there you start to introduce a new theme which is good, but I think you can change even the mood and key! Like many Chopin's nocturnes the middle section is very different from the initial section. Also for the repeated sections you can also vary them more like introducing coloraturas and other rhythmic patterns! Decorative notes will make the melody more beautiful too!

1 hour ago, Aw Ke Shen said:

It is almost ( perhaps ridiculously ) 9 mins long.

It's not ridiculous, I have done a 1 hour piece before LoL!!

Thx for sharing!

Henry

8 hours ago, Henry Ng Tsz Kiu said:

Start from b.56 the tempo marking can be weird for human players, but of course that's necessary for a computer "player" haha!

Yea lol, the accelerando doesn't work well, so I resorted to those tempo markings for notation.

8 hours ago, Henry Ng Tsz Kiu said:

I think you can definitely put more contrast, particularly in the middle section. In there you start to introduce a new theme which is good, but I think you can change even the mood and key! Like many Chopin's nocturnes the middle section is very different from the initial section. Also for the repeated sections you can also vary them more like introducing coloraturas and other rhythmic patterns! Decorative notes will make the melody more beautiful too!

Yup, there have been suggestions for more variety for the piece. Thanks!

It is a great piece. I don't think the length is an issue of concern. But there are two aspects that I would take into account: a) the strict repetition of the phrases without varying anything (harmony, melody, accompaniment pattern) is not typical of romanticism; b) the same pattern of accompaniment so invariable throughout the piece makes it somewhat monotonous. 
In this sense the B part and its repetition or similar are too long for my taste considering that it repeats the motive over and over again.
In measure 92, finally, there is a change of accompaniment pattern, which is fine.
On the other hand, to fit totally in the style I think it needs some chromatic progression or some resource of romanticism. The way the harmony is, it's more like classicism. But well, in this sense each one writes as he wants.
Greetings.
 

14 minutes ago, Luis Hernández said:

a) the strict repetition of the phrases without varying anything (harmony, melody, accompaniment pattern)

16 minutes ago, Luis Hernández said:

the same pattern of accompaniment so invariable throughout the piece makes it somewhat monotonous

16 minutes ago, Luis Hernández said:

repetition or similar are too long

Yea. Many have commented on these issues as well.

17 minutes ago, Luis Hernández said:

In measure 92, finally, there is a change of accompaniment pattern, which is fine.

That's the obvious one. There have been some changes in accompaniment pattern, specifically the types of arpeggios, prior to m 92 : m 1 to 40 is the same w the exception of measures 7 and 39; 42 to 59 is another pattern, so is 60- 83, and some parts of the ending. But yea, that's not too much changes there.

26 minutes ago, Luis Hernández said:

not typical of romanticism

26 minutes ago, Luis Hernández said:

more like classicism

Yea, lol, playing it too safe until ironically, its not quite like the style.

27 minutes ago, Luis Hernández said:

each one writes as he wants

Yup, each to their own. Personally I like romantic and late romantic more than classical, yet... Yet to manifest I guess.

Thanks!

I noticed in the score some of the left hand notes clash with the right hand?  I agree with all of the comments posted.  A bit more variety both harmonically and thematically would enhance the work.

6 hours ago, MJFOBOE said:

score some of the left hand notes clash with the right hand

Yup. I wanted to make it up to the player's discretion, on which hand to use or to use both hands. Sometimes, I notate as both hands to if the note happens to be in the continuation of the patterns in both hands ( makes sense for both to reach that note ) and sometimes, I'll prefer to use both hands as it feels more right/comfortable

6 hours ago, MJFOBOE said:

I agree with all of the comments posted.  A bit more variety both harmonically and thematically would enhance the work.

Yup

On 12/28/2023 at 3:42 AM, Aw Ke Shen said:

It is almost ( perhaps ridiculously ) 9 mins long

My 20th nocturne is almost 14, what do you mean 🥶. I agree with most of the commentary here.

5 hours ago, Aw Ke Shen said:

I notate as both hands to if the note happens to be in the continuation of the patterns in both hands ( makes sense for both to reach that note ) and sometimes, I'll prefer to use both hands as it feels more right/comfortable

In this case, in order to make reading easier and to make sure nobody thinks that this may be a scoring mistake, I would recommend to use cross-staff notation, like this:

 

Apart from that, I would say that the increasing tempo indications from M73 to M82 and then the rall. should really be hidden, since they may have full meaning for the computer playing it but very little to the real performer. In that slow, smooth accel. you made there is not such indication, but in the rall. there is! In other words, the markings are good cause there's no other way to do that (at least in MS3) but when it comes to make the score, the best practice in most cases is hiding it and putting the words (accel. and rit./rall.) for the performer.

Another tiny detail: what do you mean by "Adagio, Molto Andante"? You mean it begins adagio but then it goes to Andante? 

Yet another detail: M95, the high A is played twice. Is the bracket joining both notes then NOT a tie? Why do you use various slurs there in this case?

I liked the M117 to M119 part a lot. More dynamic range & variation would really help this piece grow to its maximum potential, but at Luis said, each one writes what he wants and as long as you are comfortable with the result, everything else is a detail.

Kind regards,
Daniel–Ømicrón.

 

3 hours ago, Omicronrg9 said:

My 20th nocturne is almost 14, what do you mean 🥶

Ok lol. At this pt, fr the comments, I don't rly have reservations about length anymore, which was the initial concern.

3 hours ago, Omicronrg9 said:

cross-staff notation

Ah yes, this is what I need to incorporate into my score-making, though I'd also be careful not to overdo them.

3 hours ago, Omicronrg9 said:

Why do you use various slurs there in this case?

wanted to link the last note of m 94 to the first note of 95 and the first note of m 95 to the second, yet also to show it is not taken as the phrase as a whole. 

...and I just realised the pedalling in the ending needs quite some correction.

On 12/31/2023 at 1:48 PM, Omicronrg9 said:

increasing tempo indications from M73 to M82 and then the rall. should really be hidden, since they may have full meaning for the computer playing it but very little to the real performer

I have made most of the bpms invisible ( but still there ) and in their place I have written tempo markings as texts ( but not as functions ), so the tempo changes remain the same for the software to play but the ( non-vid ) score is more user friendly, natural and human - the tempo changes are largely presented to be up to the player's subjective preferences.

On 12/31/2023 at 3:07 AM, Aw Ke Shen said:

Ok lol. At this pt, fr the comments, I don't rly have reservations about length anymore, which was the initial concern.

The length only becomes an issue for me because it's so repetitive. But it's your music, keep it how you like it!

On 1/19/2024 at 11:17 AM, Thatguy v2.0 said:

because it's so repetitive

Ah I see